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In Reply to: Re: Discwelder Bronze shipping soon posted by cdr@minnetonkaaudio.com on June 11, 2004 at 13:45:28:
>> The players that do it <<So not all players recognise it?
>> . . . check at 15-second intervals so if you have a disc that stops playing at 15 or 30 seconds in, that's what's happening.
<<Is the watermarking signal continuous, or does it "pop-up" at discrete limited intervals?
Also, in 5.1 playback, does it affect all main channels, or just the front L&R?
And is it used beyond DVD-Audio (i.e. would a major label use it on a master for a dual SACD-DVD-A release?)
Finally, has there been any tangible benefit to using watermarking -- i.e. can anyone honestly say that there have been instances since DVD-A's launch when watermarking has actually been instrumental in 'catching' a pirate or stopping illegal copying?
Follow Ups:
(boy, did I screw up the subject line or what)> Is the watermarking signal continuous, or does it "pop-up" at discrete limited intervals?
What I meant was the watermark checking happens over a period of 15 seconds - the scanning period is 15 seconds. The watermark info is spread over some subset of that period and players with watermark detection read for 15 seconds and then decode whether that audio was watermarked and if it was copied. It both are true, it will stop playing. 15 seconds is alot of samples - 15 * 96000 for instance - and alot of data undetectable to the ear could be spread out over the LSBs of those samples. So, in short, continuous.
> Also, in 5.1 playback, does it affect all main channels, or just the front L&R?
I really don't know anything about the watermarking mechanism or detection algorithm and it's not like Verance is going to tell me.
> And is it used beyond DVD-Audio (i.e. would a major label use it on a master for a dual SACD-DVD-A release?)
I don't knoe but I don't see any reason why it couldn't be.
> can anyone honestly say that there have been instances since DVD-A's launch when watermarking has actually been instrumental in 'catching' a pirate or stopping illegal copying?
Yes. The latter.
It will survive digital copying (of course) via a software DVD-A player playing through a sound card that offers some sort of digital loop-back in the driver from outputs back to inputs. It will also supposedly survive analog copying but I have not tried it.
Uses Verance watermarking in movie soundtracks.I just finished copying some of the Universal Classical releases that refuse to play in the Denon A11.
I have burnt copies with DW Steel at 6 channel 24/48ks and the copies played without any problems.I more or less expected that the player would refuse to play the copies...
Perhaps these titles are not watermarked.
Did you sample from the dolby digital tracks (since I presume the MLP hirez data would all be encrypted)?
F
- http://pressreleases.universalstudios.com/viewrelease.asp?ReleaseID=1910&BUID=2 (Open in New Window)
I sampled the hires from my old DVD3300 outputs at 24/96ks with a Motu 896HD and Cubase SX2.
I dithered down to 24/48ks with mild noise shaping and dither to get it to fit on a DVD5. I get 85..90 minutes of playing time.
I do not know too much about the whole watermarking thing, but have found that one of the best CP measures for DVD-A is to use MLP encoding on the audio.
So far, there just is not a single ripper yet developed that can decode the MP streams back into LPCM.Of course, these days the whole thing is a moot point really.
Unless you are a serious pie rat, when copying the entire disc would be advantageous I suppose, then there is always the analogue copy route.
If you can hear it, you can record the output straight back into 24/96 digita again without breaking a sweat.
Given the quality of some of the systems available I very much doubt if you could even tell the difference.Just mt 2 cents
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