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In Reply to: Re: discWelder and DVD-V posted by Christine Tham on June 11, 2004 at 05:13:12:
Unless the disc is a DVD-9 dual layer one, then it all fits.
Trust me - you cannot share the LPCM files across 2 Zones. They multiplex into different folders & different files. It is a VOB for all audio, embedded with video content where the video content takes priority. In the Audio Zone they multiplex into AOB files. Completely different. Otherwise you wouldn't need a separate player, would you?
How long is the content on each - if you tell me playing times for each format I will do the sums.
Bet you it is a dual layer disc - it would fit then.If you use Scenarist there is a workaround to create genuine legal content. Cannot remember off the top of my head what.
I would not bet on DVD-Lab either.
Your problem with that one is that only the beta Pro version can create multiple audio streams, and you cannot preview the audio properly either. It passes it over to a pre installed media player. It is not built in.Also, you have the region encoding prohibition to worry about too. A lot of the little navigation tricks that are used in DVD-V are illegal in DVD-A.
Follow Ups:
how is background audio in menus handled in the authoring process? is this sharable as assets across audio_ts and video_ts?i wish i can remember the title, but it was definitely a DVD-9. i can't remember the length of the material, but i seem to remember doing a rough calculation and unless the LPCM (which were all encoded as background audio in menus) were shared it wouldn't fit even into a DVD-9.
you mentioned that it is possible to share video across the zones but with restrictions. why can't the LPCM be encoded this way? ie. a a blank video track and a 96/24 audio track. i know it's possible to author this way because i've seen it done. a 96/24 2.0 audio track is only 4608 bits/sec so it's well within specs.
remember for my home burnt discs i don't care about region encoding or copy protection. also remember "amateurs" like me would be unlikely to be interested in recording 5.1 audio and also unable to afford MLP, dts encoders. in fact, i doubt i will want to spend more than say US$200 on a tool so even Wavelab is out of my price range.
> how is background audio in menus handled in the authoring process? is > this sharable as assets across audio_ts and video_ts?I don't know too much about video-side authoring but I would be surprised if this were possible.
> you mentioned that it is possible to share video across the zones but > with restrictions. why can't the LPCM be encoded this way? ie. a a > blank video track and a 96/24 audio track. i know it's possible to > author this way because i've seen it done. a 96/24 2.0 audio track is > only 4608 bits/sec so it's well within specs.
I don't think it is possible to share *only* the audio assets between the zones. Suppose the audio side were the top-level/master/whatever zone. If you take the audio asset living on the video side, you would get the video asset associated with it. Linking to a VMG or VTS menu with looped audio in the background would give you the menu that could link to titles on the video side. Unfortunately, linking to a VIDEO_TS from the audio side puts all sorts of restrictions on the sort of VIDEO_TS you can have on your disc. So, for menus, it is better not to share. For titles/tracks/songs/whatever, it's a little different. As you state above, it is possible to link to a VIDEO_TS title that is just a static picture (single MPEG i-frame) with audio. This is a good solution for sharing stereo PCM audio assets (up to 96k). The downside is that you are usually jumping to the video side from the audio side so you miss out on audio side features such as slide shows or active menu.
... as well as fixing some of the authoring bugs i encountered with eric's disc?
BRONZE has gapless. If you have an older version, you might think about upgrading. I can't remember when I put it in and whether it has been in there from the beginning (I'm at home and cannot check). Keep in mind that even if we write the tracks to the disc gaplessly (joining all the gapless tracks into one long PGC), some players (my Toshiba 4700, for one) do not play gaplessly. This is something that we have no control over. In my case, when the Toshiba hits a new program (in a chain or the only program in a chain, with slides or without, mlp/pcm, multichannel/stereo - it does not matter) it puts a gap in. I have tried discs made with discWelder and those made with the MEI and Sonic systems - same result.
> ... as well as fixing some of the authoring bugs i encountered with eric's disc?
I read that entire thread and I could not figure out what the bugs are. Could you spell them out for me? It sounded like Eric put some silence as a first track ... well ... it's just confusing.
well, i thought i had spelt it out, but ...my Panasonic DVD-RP82 crashes on Eric's one second tracks
the Denon DVD-2200 only sends digital out for left channel, Panasonic sends digital out for both left/right on that disc.
i have not encountered any commercially pressed DVD-As that have these problems.
> my Panasonic DVD-RP82 crashes on Eric's one second tracksThere is a 1-second minimum track length. I have added a warning to discWelder to warn the user. I think that having a one second track is a pretty unusual situation.
Presumably Eric's player handles this condition. Some players are more strict than others. Some players handle out-of-spec conditions better than others. FWIW, my Toshiba 4700 handles sub-second tracks just file
> the Denon DVD-2200 only sends digital out for left channel, Panasonic sends digital out for both left/right on that disc
So one player works and the other does not. Have you considered that the player's firmware might be the issue? I have encountered many quirky interpretations of the spec. in Pioneer, Panasonic and Toshiba players. What program material does this S/PDIF behavior appear on? Stereo? 5.1? Both? PCM 5.1 tracks are usually downmixed using the SMART coefficients. I just tried a downmix test with the latest STEEL version and it works great on the Toshiba.
I will try to find both the Denon and Panasonic and try these cases.
> i have not encountered any commercially pressed DVD-As that have these problems.
How many MEI-authored disc do you have that have 1-second tracks?
Perhaps Queens A Nigth at the Opera?On this one I can access a 24/96 stereo track from the DVDA menu and I think the data is in the video ts.
It's a seperate group selection.Frank
i think you are right, but there was another title like that, issued by warner i think which i can't remember the name. MLP 5.1 and 2.0 in audio TS, plus a separate group that linked to the LPCM on video TS. a bit redundant, given they already have MLP 2.0, but pretty neat i thought. anyway, if you do the calculations its obvious that that extra group is a link to the DVD-V title since there wouldn't be enough room to support MLP 5.1, MLP 2.0, two sets of LPCM, plus DD and DTS.
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