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In Reply to: Authoring bugs posted by Eric LeRouge on June 11, 2004 at 03:34:45:
as i mentioned before, creating a 96/24 DAD using DVD Architect takes minutes, certainly not weeks. of course, you *can* probably spend weeks doing all sorts of clever things, but you can also spend weeks authoring a complex DVD-A.certainly from my experiments, it's almost as easy burning a DAD as it is burning a CD.
Follow Ups:
Chris,I was not referring to a DAD à la Chesky, but to real DVD-V projects with complex structures, multimedia content, using subpicture and subtitle features, etc... (for example being able to link to several versions of a track from within the track, things like that).
Best
ahh i see. i was confused because you seem to be saying in the past that DADs take a lot more time to author than DVD-As. Perhaps i misunderstood you. That was your reply to me stating that i would prefer burning a DAD than a DVD-A.But your statement is still a bit disingenuous because a complex DVD-A with lots of menus and and bonus features and a corresponding DVD-V content will also take a lot of effort to author properly. Certainly the commercially produced DVD-As have non-trivial menu content.
so, i don't know why you are singling out DVD-V as being time consuming when it's equally time consuming in DVD-A if you want to achieve the same level of complexity.
i seem to recall that you said it would take hours to create a DAD but creating a DVD-A using DW Steel only took minutes. but when i created a DAD using DVD Architect (arguably of the same complexity as your DVD-A) it only took minutes so i'm not sure why you made that comment. am i totally confused?
Christine,You are right, I did state in the past that DVD-V / DADs projects take a lot more time than DVD-Audio projects, but when I said "weeks of work" in my post above, I was talking about 1) obviously very complex projects, and 2) a not-so fast person like me :)
Regarding DAD vs DVD-A:
I guess anybody can decide whichever format they like best, my personal opinion is that for very straight-forward projects where you just toss a number of tracks and burn them, nothing beats discWelder, especially if you have a good DVD-Audio player.
I have used Vegas + DVD-Architect quite a lot (only v.1), and have done many music DVDs, but never used them for pure "DAD" projects, without any visual content (my projects always had at least a track title as visual), so maybe in that case the rendering goes much faster, I would have to try. Also, the only attempts at 24/96 I made displayed 24/48 in my players, and I didn't know that all it takes is to edit the IFO files (which still doesn't strike me as a user-friendly thing to do, but... :)
When doing my projects (admittedly lots of pictures and bonuses), Architect took about 4 to 5 hours for rendering, preparing and burning, vs. 1.5 hour with DiscWelder Steel (essentially the same product as Bronze today) but as you know discs authored with Steel have no fancy pictures so the comparison is not really fair. Maybe if using identical material with no visuals, Architect could be as fast as discWelder, I don't know.
Also, a lot of my projects were samplers of my CDs, so you have to include the time to reformat 7 hours of redbook music at 16/48, and even if you use a batch processing program, it will take a bunch of hours, and will cost you 8% disk space or 35mn of music :)
We can take the challenge if you want: a few weeks ago I ripped my Blue Note Classic DADs in 24/96, track by track. Then I burned about 8 albums on 3 discs, in less than 5 hours (at X1 speed), with the time to type the track titles in the menu. My estimate is that if I had done that in Architect, it would have been about 3 hours for one disc (maybe less without any track titles?).
Future evolutions: if you plan to do anything higher than 24/96, or special resolutions, and any MCH authoring in PCM, well there's just no comparison. I am not sure I will have to burn 24/192 in the future, but I am certain that I have a use for MCH authoring, for example the Flaming Lips Zaireeka project, which would be lots of work on a DVD-V. As you know, multichannel ripping is now an option, so maybe in the future I'll try to rip some SACDs in MCH, and I sure don't want to use LPCM MCH in DVD-V.
...And even if you don't mind all that, DVD-Architect still cost $700, whereas discWelder Bronze cost $99... for the price difference, you can buy a nice little player, or lots of DVD-Rs :)Why would someone want to do DADs? I can see several reasons for that:
- the projects are in x48 o x96 native resolution, and are stereo only (or AC3 MCH is considered sufficient)
- the person plans to circulate the discs to a broad audience (say producers, labels, friends, etc,) who do not necessarily have a DVD-A player.
- another reason I can see is if the person has a better DVD player which is not DVD-A compatible, and wants to take advantage of better audio circuitry for x/48 and x/96 PCM. I think that's a good reason, and anyone should really compare the sound of their machine with either format to decide.
I personnally don't think I would buy a DVD player without DVD-Audio compatibility today, but each person is different.As I said, DVD-V authoring is actually a lot of fun, and allows you to do a lot more things than DVD-Audio authoring, and that's what I'm investigating right now. For example, you have the ability to use subtitles to display some information about the tracks, or comments, etc, or you have the ability to use several different versions using language options, add bonus groups, etc. But that kind of stuff takes a lot of work, and a lot of time for rendering and burning, even at x2 or x4 speeds.
With the advent of DL discs, it will be possible to include full motion animation on some tracks, add a lot of bonus, with an additional MLP high-resolution mix, etc... Obviously, the possibilities described by Neil Wilkes in his posts open a lot of new avenues for doing creative projects... if you have Chrome.
Best
Eric
it sounds like you have different requirements from me, which is cool. remember, i am only interested in burning DADs from LPs - I have zero interest in compilation albums of my CDs - i prefer listening to the CDs themselves. and i have no interest in ripping music off SACDs - why not just listen to them as they are on the SACDs?I have 3 DVD-V players, only 1 DVD-A player. if i burn a DVD-A, i am limited to 1 player. If i burn a DAD, i can play it in all my players (including PCs). i have no interest in distributing any of the stuff i do (it's illegal to distribute rips anyway).
*** As I said, DVD-V authoring is actually a lot of fun, and allows you to do a lot more things than DVD-Audio authoring, and that's what I'm investigating right now. For example, you have the ability to use subtitles to display some information about the tracks, or comments, etc, or you have the ability to use several different versions using language options, add bonus groups, etc. ***
I guess I have a different perspective. I don't like fancy features, in fact i don't want any menus etc. I just want to listen to music, preferably in a darkened room.
Hmmm,When I refered to circulating copies of a recording, I was obviously thinking of musicians (I wonder where you got that idea: why would anyone send rips of their LPs to producers and labels?)
As for ripping being illegal, it is NOT, but that's what is going to happen if people do not react to the various laws being pushed by music companies in Europe, the US, and coming your way soon. You should check out the petition started by Neil Wilkes on Afterdawn, it's quite interesting to see where those laws could be heading.
I agree that anyone can have their favourite format for recording their music, as long as they're happy with it. I know I'm happy with DVD-Audio for my simple projects and for multichannel, and I'm interested in DVD-Video for more interactive and visual 2CH stuff. I have great hopes for DL discs, so it shouldn't really be an issue to have both in a disc.And as you probably remember, I just play my music from my hard disks anyway now :)
Best
Eric
actually, ripping is technically illegal in australia, i believe. there is no concept of "fair use" but maybe a lawyer can clarify
What's a DAD?
a DAD ("Digital Audio Disc" - a pun on "DVD") is a DVD-V with just menus and LPCM tracks (typically at 96/24 2.0). I think classic records coined the term. it is a "poor woman's" version of a DVD-A but playable on all DVD players.
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