|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
In Reply to: Re: discWelder and DVD-V posted by Christine Tham on June 10, 2004 at 14:33:39:
Is this using DVD-Architect? Because every time I have tried to use the same assets in different sections (chapters), the program would re-create a specific vob object, writing the same object twice in the disc.But now that you mention it, I would have to check if this is the case when absolutely no visual or title is included.
Best
Follow Ups:
A few basics about hybrid discs are in order I feel.You are talking, I assume, about a linked hybrid disc. One which the video zone content is accessible from the Audio zone.
These zones are different, and can never share the same LPCM files.
The Audio Zone multiplexes it's content into AOB files, the Video Zone multiplexes into VOB files. THe two are completely different.Also, a legal Video_TS for DVD-V is not going to necessarily be a legal Video_TS for a DVD-A hybrid. There are a lot of restrictions in this, and if you think about it you will see why:
Remember that you are accessing this material primarily from the Audio_TS and not directly from the VTSM. VTSM support has now been added to the DVD-A spec, which means that you can set a pointer in the menu to go to the Video Zone's VTSM. This will take an entire geroup up in your Audio Zone though.There are also other restrictions:
No user ops shall be prohibited.
No region coding can be defined. Not "All Regions" - this is not allowed. You simply cannot set ANY region encoding.
No Pre commands, Post commands or Cell commands are allowed. There is an exception, you can set CallSS from TT_Dom to VMGM_Dom, but that is it.What this all means in a nutshell is that you cannot use an abstraction layer tool to create a DVD-A legal Video Zone. It will not work. You may be able to create an UNLinked Video Zone, but this will work along the lines of Audio_TS available in a DVD-A player, but not the Video_TS - you will not be abe to access it.
This rules out just about everything on the PC except Scenarist for authoring Video Zones for DVD-A.
Good to see you on the Audiobahn, even if I don't contribute there, I read your posts on Afterdawn and they're always interesting. (Hey, I even signed your petition :)As for the sharing of audio files, you may be right, but I think there's a workaround that makes it possible (don't know how, though). I remember that someone (Frank?) referred to a title that shared audio content with the DVD-V section, but I have to dig in the archives.
Anyway, if what you are saying is correct and that the feature doesn't work on most players, there's little point in it.
Best
Eric
I think that yet again I have not explained myself correctly!The whole hybrid disc thing with Video_TS import is very much a two bladed
sword.
What happens is this:
With Chrome, you can indeed import the video_TS, and in Chrome 2 there is a
legality checker to ensure that the imported Zone is actually legal.
This is not the whole story though. There are two kinds of hybrid.
1/. Linked Video Zones
2/. Non Linked Video Zones.
With type 1, you can access the video content from the menu of the Audio
zone. This does require that the video zone is DVD-A legal, and this is the
type with the problems. Apparently Chrome 2 will tell you where your video
Zone is not compliant. It will also have in the manual a list of the
prohibitions.
With type 2 hybrids, they will work in much the same way as an SACD does,
and what layer is played back will depend on what player is used. With
Chrome 1 I have successfully created several non linked hybrids that work
perfectly. On a DVD-A player you get the Audio Zone, and on a DVD-V player
it ignores (can't understand) the Audio Zone and goes straight to the VTSM
in the Video Zone. You should also be able to access this Video Zone in a
Universal player that reads both by disabling the Audio Zone access in the
players setup menu.
Obviously, the preferred method is for a linked hybrid.To do this, you would create group 1 as normal, if you have Chrome 1.0.57
ypu can do this with the undocumented Beta code that is present. Import
your VTS as the first thing you do, create group 1 and right click on track
1. You will get the option to link to any VTS in the imported Video Zone.
If it is not a "legal" VTS, then Chrome will not import it.
It is perhaps a bit wrong to state outright that you "cannot use anyabstraction layer tools" to do this. IF you keep things in the Video Zone
extremely simple & basic then you stand a chance.
Then, your DVD-A player will be able to "see" the video Zone.
Don't forget to include Audio from the hirez section, or else a pure Audio
Only player will have problems at this point.
There are a whole heap of restrictions in compatibility for imported VideoZones. This is the troublesome area.
It is also the reason that there are so few Authoring houses that are
producing these hybrids. There is currently Abbey Road in the UK only, and
soon there will be us. I just have a few wrinkles to knock out. In the USA,
I believe there are 4 houses capabe of doing this. It is about as cutting
edge as things get in the Audio world, but so well worth getting to grips
with.
It can be done though. I have done it using Chrome 1, and with Chrome 2 it
will be even easier, due in part to the Video Zone Auto Mirror feature.
This will use the built in SurCode Dolby Digital Encoder to create a very
basic DVD-A legal Video Zone automatically from the hirez content. Not sure
how it will work in practise yet, as I am now waiting for Chrome 2 to be
delivered. I will post here regularly now I remember it!
It is far from a useless feature in Chrome 2, as they are gunning for Sonic
Solutions' market share, and a full featured DVD-A app must havethis kind
of functionality. How well WaveLab will cope remains to be seen. 5.0a has
some nasty bugs in it that should have been caught at BEta, yet got
through. For example you cannot copy a larger file than 1Gb from a DVD-A
disc, despite the claim that it will copy an unprotected disc. I also
believe that the VTS import is similarly crippled, due to the legality
issues I have mentioned. The lack of MLP & DLT support is also a major
drawback for hybrids, or as you have noted you will quickly run out of disc
space.
As for shared LPCM files, this is simply impossible. The 2 Zones aredifferent animals using different multiplexes of essentially the same
material. For example, you cannot use 24/96 5.1 in LPCM for the Video Zone.
There just isn't the available bitrate, as your maximum for Audio in the
Video Zone is 6.144Megabits/second, but in DVD-A it is up to 9.8
Megabits/second. This is also why MLP is so vital. Most DVD-A uses MLP
wether it says so on the box or not. You cannot get 24/96 5.1 without it.
Hi all,I wonder to buy a DVD-A software for transfering some 3000 classical LP Vinil records in a 96\24 or better maybe 192\24 Bit quality to a double layer DVD 9 discs. I look for a programs to do this and I cannot decide what would be the best and the most economical solution to do this. It is a Wavelab 5.0 which cower all what i need, even its price I can aford, Or Adobe Audition 1.5 and DiscWelder Steel in tandem. I already buy an Nec DVD writer (double layer) and media is also available. I have WaveTerminal L sound card for Audio rec. My wish if it is possible to store on 1 DVD dual Layer disc 7 hours of DVD - A content + menus simple ones shouldnt be a problem ?
Is there anyone try to write on a 9 GB disc such an audio content- 7 hours of music 2 ch stereo. Is this possible or is DVD - A standard limited to 4,7 GB disc capacity only ? Are this two programs write to a dual layer disc ? do they recognize NEC writer at all ?
Any infos related would be of great help to me to buy the most optimal combination for the quite long period of using and to save all the my music library for the future and for the kids also but not shure if they will love classical music as I do.Pls. forgive my broken English...
Many thanks in advance to anyone who will respond,
test
i have a disc - i can't remember the tile - that has MLP 5.1, MLP 2.0, LPCM 96/24 2.0 in AUDIO_TS and LPCM 96/24 2.0, DD 5.1 and dts 5.1 on VIDEO_TS.if you do the disc space calculations, the only way all this content can fit onto one title is if AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS were sharing the same LPCM files somehow.
I think the secret is that the LPCM files are encoded as background audio in menus and are not VOBs in their own right.
And no, you will *not* be able to use a "simplistic" authoring tool like DVD Architect to get this magic to happen. I suspect it will need to be Scenarist. maybe dvd lab pro???
Unless the disc is a DVD-9 dual layer one, then it all fits.
Trust me - you cannot share the LPCM files across 2 Zones. They multiplex into different folders & different files. It is a VOB for all audio, embedded with video content where the video content takes priority. In the Audio Zone they multiplex into AOB files. Completely different. Otherwise you wouldn't need a separate player, would you?
How long is the content on each - if you tell me playing times for each format I will do the sums.
Bet you it is a dual layer disc - it would fit then.If you use Scenarist there is a workaround to create genuine legal content. Cannot remember off the top of my head what.
I would not bet on DVD-Lab either.
Your problem with that one is that only the beta Pro version can create multiple audio streams, and you cannot preview the audio properly either. It passes it over to a pre installed media player. It is not built in.Also, you have the region encoding prohibition to worry about too. A lot of the little navigation tricks that are used in DVD-V are illegal in DVD-A.
how is background audio in menus handled in the authoring process? is this sharable as assets across audio_ts and video_ts?i wish i can remember the title, but it was definitely a DVD-9. i can't remember the length of the material, but i seem to remember doing a rough calculation and unless the LPCM (which were all encoded as background audio in menus) were shared it wouldn't fit even into a DVD-9.
you mentioned that it is possible to share video across the zones but with restrictions. why can't the LPCM be encoded this way? ie. a a blank video track and a 96/24 audio track. i know it's possible to author this way because i've seen it done. a 96/24 2.0 audio track is only 4608 bits/sec so it's well within specs.
remember for my home burnt discs i don't care about region encoding or copy protection. also remember "amateurs" like me would be unlikely to be interested in recording 5.1 audio and also unable to afford MLP, dts encoders. in fact, i doubt i will want to spend more than say US$200 on a tool so even Wavelab is out of my price range.
> how is background audio in menus handled in the authoring process? is > this sharable as assets across audio_ts and video_ts?I don't know too much about video-side authoring but I would be surprised if this were possible.
> you mentioned that it is possible to share video across the zones but > with restrictions. why can't the LPCM be encoded this way? ie. a a > blank video track and a 96/24 audio track. i know it's possible to > author this way because i've seen it done. a 96/24 2.0 audio track is > only 4608 bits/sec so it's well within specs.
I don't think it is possible to share *only* the audio assets between the zones. Suppose the audio side were the top-level/master/whatever zone. If you take the audio asset living on the video side, you would get the video asset associated with it. Linking to a VMG or VTS menu with looped audio in the background would give you the menu that could link to titles on the video side. Unfortunately, linking to a VIDEO_TS from the audio side puts all sorts of restrictions on the sort of VIDEO_TS you can have on your disc. So, for menus, it is better not to share. For titles/tracks/songs/whatever, it's a little different. As you state above, it is possible to link to a VIDEO_TS title that is just a static picture (single MPEG i-frame) with audio. This is a good solution for sharing stereo PCM audio assets (up to 96k). The downside is that you are usually jumping to the video side from the audio side so you miss out on audio side features such as slide shows or active menu.
... as well as fixing some of the authoring bugs i encountered with eric's disc?
BRONZE has gapless. If you have an older version, you might think about upgrading. I can't remember when I put it in and whether it has been in there from the beginning (I'm at home and cannot check). Keep in mind that even if we write the tracks to the disc gaplessly (joining all the gapless tracks into one long PGC), some players (my Toshiba 4700, for one) do not play gaplessly. This is something that we have no control over. In my case, when the Toshiba hits a new program (in a chain or the only program in a chain, with slides or without, mlp/pcm, multichannel/stereo - it does not matter) it puts a gap in. I have tried discs made with discWelder and those made with the MEI and Sonic systems - same result.
> ... as well as fixing some of the authoring bugs i encountered with eric's disc?
I read that entire thread and I could not figure out what the bugs are. Could you spell them out for me? It sounded like Eric put some silence as a first track ... well ... it's just confusing.
well, i thought i had spelt it out, but ...my Panasonic DVD-RP82 crashes on Eric's one second tracks
the Denon DVD-2200 only sends digital out for left channel, Panasonic sends digital out for both left/right on that disc.
i have not encountered any commercially pressed DVD-As that have these problems.
> my Panasonic DVD-RP82 crashes on Eric's one second tracksThere is a 1-second minimum track length. I have added a warning to discWelder to warn the user. I think that having a one second track is a pretty unusual situation.
Presumably Eric's player handles this condition. Some players are more strict than others. Some players handle out-of-spec conditions better than others. FWIW, my Toshiba 4700 handles sub-second tracks just file
> the Denon DVD-2200 only sends digital out for left channel, Panasonic sends digital out for both left/right on that disc
So one player works and the other does not. Have you considered that the player's firmware might be the issue? I have encountered many quirky interpretations of the spec. in Pioneer, Panasonic and Toshiba players. What program material does this S/PDIF behavior appear on? Stereo? 5.1? Both? PCM 5.1 tracks are usually downmixed using the SMART coefficients. I just tried a downmix test with the latest STEEL version and it works great on the Toshiba.
I will try to find both the Denon and Panasonic and try these cases.
> i have not encountered any commercially pressed DVD-As that have these problems.
How many MEI-authored disc do you have that have 1-second tracks?
Perhaps Queens A Nigth at the Opera?On this one I can access a 24/96 stereo track from the DVDA menu and I think the data is in the video ts.
It's a seperate group selection.Frank
i think you are right, but there was another title like that, issued by warner i think which i can't remember the name. MLP 5.1 and 2.0 in audio TS, plus a separate group that linked to the LPCM on video TS. a bit redundant, given they already have MLP 2.0, but pretty neat i thought. anyway, if you do the calculations its obvious that that extra group is a link to the DVD-V title since there wouldn't be enough room to support MLP 5.1, MLP 2.0, two sets of LPCM, plus DD and DTS.
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: