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Minnetonka Software have finally released version 2 of their professional DVD-Audio authoring program, discWelder Chrome. Originally scheduled for release in January 2004, Chrome II adds a number of much-wanted features, including enhanced functionality for custom menu design, automatic creation of a DVD-Video version of the audio content, and the possibility to link to a video track from the DVD-Audio menu.As you can now add track pointers to LPCM files (i.e. split one audio file into several DVD tracks), it might no longer be necessary to use MLP in all cases. However, this feature is also available in Wavelab 5 at a much lower price, and with a much more elegant user interface.
Also added is a DSD import feature, mainly targeted at studios wishing to create DVD-Audio reference and approval discs of their SACD projects.
Creation of dual-layer DVD-R discs is not supported yet; the basic functionality to create a layer break is already present in the software (and can be used to write DLT tapes for replication masters); however, the underlying DVD writing package has not yet been updated to support the new dual layer writers.
Unfortunately, Minnetonka has increased the retail price of Chrome to $2995; while the price now includes the Dolby AC3 encoder needed for creating DVD-Video content, MLP is still not included in the basic package und has to be purchased separately. An upgrade from earlier versions of Chrome is also available.
Mathias
Follow Ups:
PLease, how Can i download. http://www.buy-education.narod.ru/
Can I just make a couple of corrections to the last post?
Dual layer DVD-R support is not included probably because it does not yet exist!
DVD+R dual layer support is a different animal, and a format not recognised by the DVD Forum, and as such could not be used for replication as these discs content cannot ever carry the DVD Logos.MLP support is virtually mandatory for DVD-A, as not only will it allow 24/96 surround - you cannot achieve this without MLP as you exceed the available bitrate - but it halves the filesize thus leaving plenty of room for Video Zone content.
Linking to VTS material is good - although users of the last Version 1.0.57 already know that this is present in beta form in that release & you can link to an imported VTS from Group 1.
It is not that expensive either, considering the price of Sonic Solutions DVD-Audio Creator, at $5,000 for the LE version and a staggering $15,000 for the full version.
Comparisons with Waveab are futile. WaveLab does not have half thefunctionality or any of the intuitive use of Chrome. No DLT, No MLP support, No VideoZone legality checker, no 24/96 surround higher than Quad, No motion menus, No PSD import, No videozone creator, the list goes on and on.
Chrome will continue to riule the roost, and I have already bought my copy. Now if only the couriers will deliver before the end of next week.....
Thanks Mathias,$3000 is a lot of money, especially for home studio projects. But the DSD import feature in itself probably makes it worthwile for many studios out there.
Just curious: Can you share the PCM files from the video_ts or do you have to have a file in both folders? How much additional space does the DVD-V structure add to a project?
Best
I have been listened to the compilation DVD-A that you burnt for me, Eric, as I've grown very fond of the music :-) (to the extent I am now contemplating buying some of the CDs).I've noticed a lot of problems playing back that disc on my Panasonic:
- the player sometimes "crashes" transitioning from the end of one "CD" content to the other and become totally nonresponsive. requires a power down and up.
- the gaps between tracks are very annoying
- weird stuff like beginning on track 2
- when i turn on digital output from the player, i only get the left channel ??? with commercial DVD-As I get a perfect signal up to 48kHz (copy-protected) or 96kHz (non copy-protected).I heard that people are reporting problems using Bronze - is this true?
Personally, given that I'm now able to author 96/24 "DADs" a lot of the incentive to burn home DVD-As have disappeared, especially given the high price tags and authoring issues.
actually, the digital output works perfectly on the panasonicbut i only get left channel on a denon dvd-2200 (but the 2200 digital output works for commercial DVD-As)
**** I've noticed a lot of problems playing back that disc on my Panasonic:
- the player sometimes "crashes" transitioning from the end of one "CD" content to the other and become totally nonresponsive. requires a power down and up.****This is one of the typical problems encountered with dics authored with the first version of discWelder Steel, especially for the discs loaded to the max (close to 7 hours of redbook in one group). I don't have a Panasonic player myself, but I am surprised that it would happen on a Panasonic model, because every model I have tried didn't display any issue reading my discs.
***- the gaps between tracks are very annoying***
Indeed, this was the biggest problem for most people. It was solved late last year, and the version 2 of Steel allows you to set the gap. I think Bronze is "gapless", but you have to check.
***- weird stuff like beginning on track 2***
LOL, sorry, but that's the trick I used to have the album title appear in the menu. I just included an empty (1 sec or even less) track so I could write the album title in the menu. So in effect, my discs skip one track for each new album
:)****- when i turn on digital output from the player, i only get the left channel ??? with commercial DVD-As I get a perfect signal up to 48kHz (copy-protected) or 96kHz (non copy-protected).****
I almost never used the digital output on my players, so I couldn't say, but another inmate tried to output PCM to his dCS dac, and found that the signal was limited to 48k. I really don't know where this problem is coming from.
***I heard that people are reporting problems using Bronze - is this true?***
I would assume this is true, because I have read and heard about several cases of problems, but they seemed related to the Gear burning software, more than the authoring itself (some of the problems sounded very much like the initial problems we had with Steel).
But I think Minnetonka is more competent about the known issues,so hopefully they can comment on this.
***Personally, given that I'm now able to author 96/24 "DADs" a lot of the incentive to burn home DVD-As have disappeared, especially given the high price tags and authoring issues. ***
Well, again, this is partly a time issue. If all your material is stereo at x/48 or x/96 and you do not need to go into multichannel, and if you feel the time required is not critical, a DAD is just as fine, and even better because you can play it on any player.
However, if you record at x/44.1, x/88.2, x/174.4 or x/192 or if you mix in MCH (MCH PCM works in DVD-V, but I think it's really complicated), then DVD-A is the most simple thing to do. Especially if you can author a DVD-V section on the same disc, as apparently is possible now.
Heck, if you work in DSD, you can now burn your DVD-Audio proofs in no time using discWelder Chrome :)
After seeing several DVD projects done, I think the greatest advantage of DVD-V is the ability to link to multimedia content and play with "hidden" features, such as languages, subtitles, and subpictures. But it's a different ballgame, we're talking weeks of work (but it's fun :)
Best
*** LOL, sorry, but that's the trick I used to have the album title appear in the menu. I just included an empty (1 sec or even less) track so I could write the album title in the menu. So in effect, my discs skip one track for each new album
:) ***but these are precisely the tracks that the Panasonic crashes on. so it looks like there is an authoring problem with these tracks.
*** However, if you record at x/44.1, x/88.2, x/174.4 or x/192 or if you mix in MCH (MCH PCM works in DVD-V, but I think it's really complicated), then DVD-A is the most simple thing to do. Especially if you can author a DVD-V section on the same disc, as apparently is possible now. ***
i don't record at any of these rates, nor do i intend to. why would i want to? MCH ... maybe ... but not for my recordings of LPs. 96/24 2.0 is the ideal format for these.
I see,Then the problem is with my disc, because of the 1' empty tracks. I'll have to avoid doing that, obviously.
Cheers
as i mentioned before, creating a 96/24 DAD using DVD Architect takes minutes, certainly not weeks. of course, you *can* probably spend weeks doing all sorts of clever things, but you can also spend weeks authoring a complex DVD-A.certainly from my experiments, it's almost as easy burning a DAD as it is burning a CD.
Chris,I was not referring to a DAD à la Chesky, but to real DVD-V projects with complex structures, multimedia content, using subpicture and subtitle features, etc... (for example being able to link to several versions of a track from within the track, things like that).
Best
ahh i see. i was confused because you seem to be saying in the past that DADs take a lot more time to author than DVD-As. Perhaps i misunderstood you. That was your reply to me stating that i would prefer burning a DAD than a DVD-A.But your statement is still a bit disingenuous because a complex DVD-A with lots of menus and and bonus features and a corresponding DVD-V content will also take a lot of effort to author properly. Certainly the commercially produced DVD-As have non-trivial menu content.
so, i don't know why you are singling out DVD-V as being time consuming when it's equally time consuming in DVD-A if you want to achieve the same level of complexity.
i seem to recall that you said it would take hours to create a DAD but creating a DVD-A using DW Steel only took minutes. but when i created a DAD using DVD Architect (arguably of the same complexity as your DVD-A) it only took minutes so i'm not sure why you made that comment. am i totally confused?
Christine,You are right, I did state in the past that DVD-V / DADs projects take a lot more time than DVD-Audio projects, but when I said "weeks of work" in my post above, I was talking about 1) obviously very complex projects, and 2) a not-so fast person like me :)
Regarding DAD vs DVD-A:
I guess anybody can decide whichever format they like best, my personal opinion is that for very straight-forward projects where you just toss a number of tracks and burn them, nothing beats discWelder, especially if you have a good DVD-Audio player.
I have used Vegas + DVD-Architect quite a lot (only v.1), and have done many music DVDs, but never used them for pure "DAD" projects, without any visual content (my projects always had at least a track title as visual), so maybe in that case the rendering goes much faster, I would have to try. Also, the only attempts at 24/96 I made displayed 24/48 in my players, and I didn't know that all it takes is to edit the IFO files (which still doesn't strike me as a user-friendly thing to do, but... :)
When doing my projects (admittedly lots of pictures and bonuses), Architect took about 4 to 5 hours for rendering, preparing and burning, vs. 1.5 hour with DiscWelder Steel (essentially the same product as Bronze today) but as you know discs authored with Steel have no fancy pictures so the comparison is not really fair. Maybe if using identical material with no visuals, Architect could be as fast as discWelder, I don't know.
Also, a lot of my projects were samplers of my CDs, so you have to include the time to reformat 7 hours of redbook music at 16/48, and even if you use a batch processing program, it will take a bunch of hours, and will cost you 8% disk space or 35mn of music :)
We can take the challenge if you want: a few weeks ago I ripped my Blue Note Classic DADs in 24/96, track by track. Then I burned about 8 albums on 3 discs, in less than 5 hours (at X1 speed), with the time to type the track titles in the menu. My estimate is that if I had done that in Architect, it would have been about 3 hours for one disc (maybe less without any track titles?).
Future evolutions: if you plan to do anything higher than 24/96, or special resolutions, and any MCH authoring in PCM, well there's just no comparison. I am not sure I will have to burn 24/192 in the future, but I am certain that I have a use for MCH authoring, for example the Flaming Lips Zaireeka project, which would be lots of work on a DVD-V. As you know, multichannel ripping is now an option, so maybe in the future I'll try to rip some SACDs in MCH, and I sure don't want to use LPCM MCH in DVD-V.
...And even if you don't mind all that, DVD-Architect still cost $700, whereas discWelder Bronze cost $99... for the price difference, you can buy a nice little player, or lots of DVD-Rs :)Why would someone want to do DADs? I can see several reasons for that:
- the projects are in x48 o x96 native resolution, and are stereo only (or AC3 MCH is considered sufficient)
- the person plans to circulate the discs to a broad audience (say producers, labels, friends, etc,) who do not necessarily have a DVD-A player.
- another reason I can see is if the person has a better DVD player which is not DVD-A compatible, and wants to take advantage of better audio circuitry for x/48 and x/96 PCM. I think that's a good reason, and anyone should really compare the sound of their machine with either format to decide.
I personnally don't think I would buy a DVD player without DVD-Audio compatibility today, but each person is different.As I said, DVD-V authoring is actually a lot of fun, and allows you to do a lot more things than DVD-Audio authoring, and that's what I'm investigating right now. For example, you have the ability to use subtitles to display some information about the tracks, or comments, etc, or you have the ability to use several different versions using language options, add bonus groups, etc. But that kind of stuff takes a lot of work, and a lot of time for rendering and burning, even at x2 or x4 speeds.
With the advent of DL discs, it will be possible to include full motion animation on some tracks, add a lot of bonus, with an additional MLP high-resolution mix, etc... Obviously, the possibilities described by Neil Wilkes in his posts open a lot of new avenues for doing creative projects... if you have Chrome.
Best
Eric
it sounds like you have different requirements from me, which is cool. remember, i am only interested in burning DADs from LPs - I have zero interest in compilation albums of my CDs - i prefer listening to the CDs themselves. and i have no interest in ripping music off SACDs - why not just listen to them as they are on the SACDs?I have 3 DVD-V players, only 1 DVD-A player. if i burn a DVD-A, i am limited to 1 player. If i burn a DAD, i can play it in all my players (including PCs). i have no interest in distributing any of the stuff i do (it's illegal to distribute rips anyway).
*** As I said, DVD-V authoring is actually a lot of fun, and allows you to do a lot more things than DVD-Audio authoring, and that's what I'm investigating right now. For example, you have the ability to use subtitles to display some information about the tracks, or comments, etc, or you have the ability to use several different versions using language options, add bonus groups, etc. ***
I guess I have a different perspective. I don't like fancy features, in fact i don't want any menus etc. I just want to listen to music, preferably in a darkened room.
Hmmm,When I refered to circulating copies of a recording, I was obviously thinking of musicians (I wonder where you got that idea: why would anyone send rips of their LPs to producers and labels?)
As for ripping being illegal, it is NOT, but that's what is going to happen if people do not react to the various laws being pushed by music companies in Europe, the US, and coming your way soon. You should check out the petition started by Neil Wilkes on Afterdawn, it's quite interesting to see where those laws could be heading.
I agree that anyone can have their favourite format for recording their music, as long as they're happy with it. I know I'm happy with DVD-Audio for my simple projects and for multichannel, and I'm interested in DVD-Video for more interactive and visual 2CH stuff. I have great hopes for DL discs, so it shouldn't really be an issue to have both in a disc.And as you probably remember, I just play my music from my hard disks anyway now :)
Best
Eric
actually, ripping is technically illegal in australia, i believe. there is no concept of "fair use" but maybe a lawyer can clarify
What's a DAD?
a DAD ("Digital Audio Disc" - a pun on "DVD") is a DVD-V with just menus and LPCM tracks (typically at 96/24 2.0). I think classic records coined the term. it is a "poor woman's" version of a DVD-A but playable on all DVD players.
Hello Eric,yes, I feel that there has to be something done about the price of DVD-Audio authoring. That's why I think that Wavelab 5 is such a great product: now we have competition, and given Minnetonka's long experience with DiscWelder and its predecessor, A-Plus, we will hopefully see new and interesting features added to their lower-cost products as well. Now if someone could convince Dolby / Meridian to lower the price of their MLP encoder . . .
About your other questions: I am no expert in DVD-Video authoring, but the audio_ts and video_ts folders are completely separate. As the PCM files are encoded differently in both worlds, you cannot share them – at least, that is my understanding.
Additional space: this heavily depends on what kind of audio track(s) you use in the DVD-V part. Dolby digital 5.1 uses about 200 MBytes per hour, 24/96 LPCM stereo will need something above 2 GBytes per hour. The necessary still images are negligible in comparison.
Thanks Mathias,I think when the DVD-A soundfiles are LPCM, they can be shared with the DVD-V structure (as long as the format is compatible with both) and at least one or two labels are doing this.
To use an example, if you have 2 hours of 24/96 music in the DVD-A structure, you could also have the same music (2 hours) in DVD-V or does Chrome tell you that you have run out of space?
As for the rest, I think you're right, the competition will bring more and more features to the customers. It's just a shame that the upgrade path is so steep :)
Best
the sharing is quite possible and works even on DVD-V (multiple DVD-V titles sharing the same video content)it works on the same principle as multiple links to a file from different directories. The IFO files just point to the same VOB content (not strictly speaking accurate, but you get the idea).
Is this using DVD-Architect? Because every time I have tried to use the same assets in different sections (chapters), the program would re-create a specific vob object, writing the same object twice in the disc.But now that you mention it, I would have to check if this is the case when absolutely no visual or title is included.
Best
A few basics about hybrid discs are in order I feel.You are talking, I assume, about a linked hybrid disc. One which the video zone content is accessible from the Audio zone.
These zones are different, and can never share the same LPCM files.
The Audio Zone multiplexes it's content into AOB files, the Video Zone multiplexes into VOB files. THe two are completely different.Also, a legal Video_TS for DVD-V is not going to necessarily be a legal Video_TS for a DVD-A hybrid. There are a lot of restrictions in this, and if you think about it you will see why:
Remember that you are accessing this material primarily from the Audio_TS and not directly from the VTSM. VTSM support has now been added to the DVD-A spec, which means that you can set a pointer in the menu to go to the Video Zone's VTSM. This will take an entire geroup up in your Audio Zone though.There are also other restrictions:
No user ops shall be prohibited.
No region coding can be defined. Not "All Regions" - this is not allowed. You simply cannot set ANY region encoding.
No Pre commands, Post commands or Cell commands are allowed. There is an exception, you can set CallSS from TT_Dom to VMGM_Dom, but that is it.What this all means in a nutshell is that you cannot use an abstraction layer tool to create a DVD-A legal Video Zone. It will not work. You may be able to create an UNLinked Video Zone, but this will work along the lines of Audio_TS available in a DVD-A player, but not the Video_TS - you will not be abe to access it.
This rules out just about everything on the PC except Scenarist for authoring Video Zones for DVD-A.
Good to see you on the Audiobahn, even if I don't contribute there, I read your posts on Afterdawn and they're always interesting. (Hey, I even signed your petition :)As for the sharing of audio files, you may be right, but I think there's a workaround that makes it possible (don't know how, though). I remember that someone (Frank?) referred to a title that shared audio content with the DVD-V section, but I have to dig in the archives.
Anyway, if what you are saying is correct and that the feature doesn't work on most players, there's little point in it.
Best
Eric
I think that yet again I have not explained myself correctly!The whole hybrid disc thing with Video_TS import is very much a two bladed
sword.
What happens is this:
With Chrome, you can indeed import the video_TS, and in Chrome 2 there is a
legality checker to ensure that the imported Zone is actually legal.
This is not the whole story though. There are two kinds of hybrid.
1/. Linked Video Zones
2/. Non Linked Video Zones.
With type 1, you can access the video content from the menu of the Audio
zone. This does require that the video zone is DVD-A legal, and this is the
type with the problems. Apparently Chrome 2 will tell you where your video
Zone is not compliant. It will also have in the manual a list of the
prohibitions.
With type 2 hybrids, they will work in much the same way as an SACD does,
and what layer is played back will depend on what player is used. With
Chrome 1 I have successfully created several non linked hybrids that work
perfectly. On a DVD-A player you get the Audio Zone, and on a DVD-V player
it ignores (can't understand) the Audio Zone and goes straight to the VTSM
in the Video Zone. You should also be able to access this Video Zone in a
Universal player that reads both by disabling the Audio Zone access in the
players setup menu.
Obviously, the preferred method is for a linked hybrid.To do this, you would create group 1 as normal, if you have Chrome 1.0.57
ypu can do this with the undocumented Beta code that is present. Import
your VTS as the first thing you do, create group 1 and right click on track
1. You will get the option to link to any VTS in the imported Video Zone.
If it is not a "legal" VTS, then Chrome will not import it.
It is perhaps a bit wrong to state outright that you "cannot use anyabstraction layer tools" to do this. IF you keep things in the Video Zone
extremely simple & basic then you stand a chance.
Then, your DVD-A player will be able to "see" the video Zone.
Don't forget to include Audio from the hirez section, or else a pure Audio
Only player will have problems at this point.
There are a whole heap of restrictions in compatibility for imported VideoZones. This is the troublesome area.
It is also the reason that there are so few Authoring houses that are
producing these hybrids. There is currently Abbey Road in the UK only, and
soon there will be us. I just have a few wrinkles to knock out. In the USA,
I believe there are 4 houses capabe of doing this. It is about as cutting
edge as things get in the Audio world, but so well worth getting to grips
with.
It can be done though. I have done it using Chrome 1, and with Chrome 2 it
will be even easier, due in part to the Video Zone Auto Mirror feature.
This will use the built in SurCode Dolby Digital Encoder to create a very
basic DVD-A legal Video Zone automatically from the hirez content. Not sure
how it will work in practise yet, as I am now waiting for Chrome 2 to be
delivered. I will post here regularly now I remember it!
It is far from a useless feature in Chrome 2, as they are gunning for Sonic
Solutions' market share, and a full featured DVD-A app must havethis kind
of functionality. How well WaveLab will cope remains to be seen. 5.0a has
some nasty bugs in it that should have been caught at BEta, yet got
through. For example you cannot copy a larger file than 1Gb from a DVD-A
disc, despite the claim that it will copy an unprotected disc. I also
believe that the VTS import is similarly crippled, due to the legality
issues I have mentioned. The lack of MLP & DLT support is also a major
drawback for hybrids, or as you have noted you will quickly run out of disc
space.
As for shared LPCM files, this is simply impossible. The 2 Zones aredifferent animals using different multiplexes of essentially the same
material. For example, you cannot use 24/96 5.1 in LPCM for the Video Zone.
There just isn't the available bitrate, as your maximum for Audio in the
Video Zone is 6.144Megabits/second, but in DVD-A it is up to 9.8
Megabits/second. This is also why MLP is so vital. Most DVD-A uses MLP
wether it says so on the box or not. You cannot get 24/96 5.1 without it.
Hi all,I wonder to buy a DVD-A software for transfering some 3000 classical LP Vinil records in a 96\24 or better maybe 192\24 Bit quality to a double layer DVD 9 discs. I look for a programs to do this and I cannot decide what would be the best and the most economical solution to do this. It is a Wavelab 5.0 which cower all what i need, even its price I can aford, Or Adobe Audition 1.5 and DiscWelder Steel in tandem. I already buy an Nec DVD writer (double layer) and media is also available. I have WaveTerminal L sound card for Audio rec. My wish if it is possible to store on 1 DVD dual Layer disc 7 hours of DVD - A content + menus simple ones shouldnt be a problem ?
Is there anyone try to write on a 9 GB disc such an audio content- 7 hours of music 2 ch stereo. Is this possible or is DVD - A standard limited to 4,7 GB disc capacity only ? Are this two programs write to a dual layer disc ? do they recognize NEC writer at all ?
Any infos related would be of great help to me to buy the most optimal combination for the quite long period of using and to save all the my music library for the future and for the kids also but not shure if they will love classical music as I do.Pls. forgive my broken English...
Many thanks in advance to anyone who will respond,
test
i have a disc - i can't remember the tile - that has MLP 5.1, MLP 2.0, LPCM 96/24 2.0 in AUDIO_TS and LPCM 96/24 2.0, DD 5.1 and dts 5.1 on VIDEO_TS.if you do the disc space calculations, the only way all this content can fit onto one title is if AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS were sharing the same LPCM files somehow.
I think the secret is that the LPCM files are encoded as background audio in menus and are not VOBs in their own right.
And no, you will *not* be able to use a "simplistic" authoring tool like DVD Architect to get this magic to happen. I suspect it will need to be Scenarist. maybe dvd lab pro???
Unless the disc is a DVD-9 dual layer one, then it all fits.
Trust me - you cannot share the LPCM files across 2 Zones. They multiplex into different folders & different files. It is a VOB for all audio, embedded with video content where the video content takes priority. In the Audio Zone they multiplex into AOB files. Completely different. Otherwise you wouldn't need a separate player, would you?
How long is the content on each - if you tell me playing times for each format I will do the sums.
Bet you it is a dual layer disc - it would fit then.If you use Scenarist there is a workaround to create genuine legal content. Cannot remember off the top of my head what.
I would not bet on DVD-Lab either.
Your problem with that one is that only the beta Pro version can create multiple audio streams, and you cannot preview the audio properly either. It passes it over to a pre installed media player. It is not built in.Also, you have the region encoding prohibition to worry about too. A lot of the little navigation tricks that are used in DVD-V are illegal in DVD-A.
how is background audio in menus handled in the authoring process? is this sharable as assets across audio_ts and video_ts?i wish i can remember the title, but it was definitely a DVD-9. i can't remember the length of the material, but i seem to remember doing a rough calculation and unless the LPCM (which were all encoded as background audio in menus) were shared it wouldn't fit even into a DVD-9.
you mentioned that it is possible to share video across the zones but with restrictions. why can't the LPCM be encoded this way? ie. a a blank video track and a 96/24 audio track. i know it's possible to author this way because i've seen it done. a 96/24 2.0 audio track is only 4608 bits/sec so it's well within specs.
remember for my home burnt discs i don't care about region encoding or copy protection. also remember "amateurs" like me would be unlikely to be interested in recording 5.1 audio and also unable to afford MLP, dts encoders. in fact, i doubt i will want to spend more than say US$200 on a tool so even Wavelab is out of my price range.
> how is background audio in menus handled in the authoring process? is > this sharable as assets across audio_ts and video_ts?I don't know too much about video-side authoring but I would be surprised if this were possible.
> you mentioned that it is possible to share video across the zones but > with restrictions. why can't the LPCM be encoded this way? ie. a a > blank video track and a 96/24 audio track. i know it's possible to > author this way because i've seen it done. a 96/24 2.0 audio track is > only 4608 bits/sec so it's well within specs.
I don't think it is possible to share *only* the audio assets between the zones. Suppose the audio side were the top-level/master/whatever zone. If you take the audio asset living on the video side, you would get the video asset associated with it. Linking to a VMG or VTS menu with looped audio in the background would give you the menu that could link to titles on the video side. Unfortunately, linking to a VIDEO_TS from the audio side puts all sorts of restrictions on the sort of VIDEO_TS you can have on your disc. So, for menus, it is better not to share. For titles/tracks/songs/whatever, it's a little different. As you state above, it is possible to link to a VIDEO_TS title that is just a static picture (single MPEG i-frame) with audio. This is a good solution for sharing stereo PCM audio assets (up to 96k). The downside is that you are usually jumping to the video side from the audio side so you miss out on audio side features such as slide shows or active menu.
... as well as fixing some of the authoring bugs i encountered with eric's disc?
BRONZE has gapless. If you have an older version, you might think about upgrading. I can't remember when I put it in and whether it has been in there from the beginning (I'm at home and cannot check). Keep in mind that even if we write the tracks to the disc gaplessly (joining all the gapless tracks into one long PGC), some players (my Toshiba 4700, for one) do not play gaplessly. This is something that we have no control over. In my case, when the Toshiba hits a new program (in a chain or the only program in a chain, with slides or without, mlp/pcm, multichannel/stereo - it does not matter) it puts a gap in. I have tried discs made with discWelder and those made with the MEI and Sonic systems - same result.
> ... as well as fixing some of the authoring bugs i encountered with eric's disc?
I read that entire thread and I could not figure out what the bugs are. Could you spell them out for me? It sounded like Eric put some silence as a first track ... well ... it's just confusing.
well, i thought i had spelt it out, but ...my Panasonic DVD-RP82 crashes on Eric's one second tracks
the Denon DVD-2200 only sends digital out for left channel, Panasonic sends digital out for both left/right on that disc.
i have not encountered any commercially pressed DVD-As that have these problems.
> my Panasonic DVD-RP82 crashes on Eric's one second tracksThere is a 1-second minimum track length. I have added a warning to discWelder to warn the user. I think that having a one second track is a pretty unusual situation.
Presumably Eric's player handles this condition. Some players are more strict than others. Some players handle out-of-spec conditions better than others. FWIW, my Toshiba 4700 handles sub-second tracks just file
> the Denon DVD-2200 only sends digital out for left channel, Panasonic sends digital out for both left/right on that disc
So one player works and the other does not. Have you considered that the player's firmware might be the issue? I have encountered many quirky interpretations of the spec. in Pioneer, Panasonic and Toshiba players. What program material does this S/PDIF behavior appear on? Stereo? 5.1? Both? PCM 5.1 tracks are usually downmixed using the SMART coefficients. I just tried a downmix test with the latest STEEL version and it works great on the Toshiba.
I will try to find both the Denon and Panasonic and try these cases.
> i have not encountered any commercially pressed DVD-As that have these problems.
How many MEI-authored disc do you have that have 1-second tracks?
Perhaps Queens A Nigth at the Opera?On this one I can access a 24/96 stereo track from the DVDA menu and I think the data is in the video ts.
It's a seperate group selection.Frank
i think you are right, but there was another title like that, issued by warner i think which i can't remember the name. MLP 5.1 and 2.0 in audio TS, plus a separate group that linked to the LPCM on video TS. a bit redundant, given they already have MLP 2.0, but pretty neat i thought. anyway, if you do the calculations its obvious that that extra group is a link to the DVD-V title since there wouldn't be enough room to support MLP 5.1, MLP 2.0, two sets of LPCM, plus DD and DTS.
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