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In Reply to: Re: Premature to read that as "Talking Heads are on the way" posted by Bobo U2 on May 21, 2004 at 21:13:33:
or say so verifying the information. Worse, a one year expected arrival date is 6 months too late.
Follow Ups:
Frank
We need more proof.....when I go see David Byrne next week I'll ask him to post here so DUI can be satisfied....
Nothing wrong with DUI pov on this. Surround doesn't mean release as DVD-A, SACD or hi-rez.
Can't you read?
Can't you? There was no release confirmation.
Interesting thread too!Sacd is nearly dead.
DVD Audio has a slim chance but needs more video thrown in.
Frank
http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?p=620293#post620293
Not trying to be argumentative. But we've got this link to Steve Hoffman site, with someone saying that at the NARAS surround sound conference, George Massenberg declares DVD-V the victor in the format wars over SACD and DVD-A.http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=33810
Sorry, but I didn't know about the conference; I don't know George Massenberg; I don't know if he even said this; I don't know that even if he said it, he is "in the know," etc.
Does he speak for Sony? Does he speak for the DVD-A forum group?
Is this Massenberg's opinion? Maybe. Is it backed up by facts? Maybe. Is he entitled to an opinion? Sure. Is it an opinion that is certainly true? No, he's trying to predict the future . . .
I agree that the both hi-rez formats have sputtered to what appears to be a halt after zooming out of the gate at a tortoises' max speed. I agree that both the selection and speed of releases leaves A LOT to be desired. To say they are dead--even if qualified by almost--seems 1) premature; and 2) not yet established from reliable sources.
Will both die next month? Maybe.
I hope not but I can see how DVD-V is the format of choice. I just finished watching Steve Vai " Live at the Astoria London" and enjoyed it very much even though the PCM stereo layer was only (48k/16b). Most people will buy these disc's for the video content and don't care how the audio side was recorded. This is where I think DVD-A still has a chance if we can keep the video portion and just add a Hi-rez audio track everyone will be happy and there would be only one disc to buy.
The problem is that there's just not enough capacity on a DVD for a full-length concert video AND truly hi-rez MC audio; if there were, there would be no need for DVD-A to begin with.
be an alternative to RBCD and to add MC surround. It has the capability to add video content since it has to be played on a DVD player anyway but that was not it's main purpose ( music was). Only now after the format been out for a while has it become obvious that the video side is just as important as the audio side. So I don't know how you can make that statement that there would be no use for DVD-A to begin with. And if that's the case it does not bold well for SACD as well. As for capacity on a disc I'm sure they are working on ways to add more but for now using dual sided or hybrid disc could be an alternative. Example would be to put video and 5.1 surround on one side and a hi-rez audio only on the other. It would still be just one disc but could satisfy consumers with different priorities to buy it.
Let me try to explain more clearly:It's a DVD. There is DVD-V because there's not enough room to fit the "A" if there is "V" on it. There is DVD-A because there's not enough room to fit the "V" if there is "A" on it. If both could fit, there would be no need for a DVD-A (or a DVD-V) because it would just be DVD.
And yes, I know about dual-sided discs, which so far appear to have been a market failure.
The way to add more capacity is with a new format, or compress everything even more.
"It's a DVD. There is DVD-V because there's not enough room to fit the "A" if there is "V" on it. There is DVD-A because there's not enough room to fit the "V" if there is "A" on it. If both could fit, there would be no need for a DVD-A (or a DVD-V) because it would just be DVD."
Yes, but you have forgotten that both formats did not come out at the same time. So by you simplifing in such terms as above, that scenario could not have been possible anyway. The distinction between the two would still have to be made for all sorts of reasons.
I'm not sure I understand your point. Please clarify.
DVD-V was already released before the technology for DVD-A became available. So if it could have been done to just add it on to DVD-v, no one would know it is there and plus you have the capatability issues for playback. So your suggestion that they could just call it DVD is not possible at this time. You are trying to rewrite history.
I see what you're saying now, and no - I'm not trying to "rewrite history." The technology to create hi-rez recordings has been around for many years. The technology to put those hi-rez recordings onto DVD discs was available the day DVD was released. That it was not done for other reasons (such as the several-year argument over which copy protection scheme to use) doesn't change anything.The point I made before, and that you seem to be either ignoring or trying to obfuscate, is that if hi-rez audio and full-length video could be put on a DVD disc together, there would not have been a need for a separate format called "DVD-A." In order to combine both, a new format is needed.
IF anyone wants it. The vast majority of consumers seem to be perfectly satisfied - no, make that ecstatic over - garden-variety DVD-V with Dolby Digital or half-rate DTS soundtracks. Most people think those lossy soundtracks are a huge step up from CDs. Most of those people are watching those DVDs on the same (or similar) TVs they used for watching VHS tapes, so they think the DVD video is great too.
original post and the point I was trying to make and I'm not trying to obfuscate is 1 player, 1 disc, 4 formats. This would make everyone happy ( audiophiles, videophiles and the average Joes ) and I know this has not happened yet but I am looking into future possibilities ( such as the dual sided disc that I mentioned) and the DVD format (including DVD-A) would have to play a role in such a scenario. You keep bringing up the past and saying what could or could not be done with the technology but that was not the intent of my posting. Whats done is done, time to move on.
If you want to believe I'm somehow dwelling in the past, have at it.From a functional standpoint, there's nothing wrong with the DVD-A application of the DVD format - as long as you don't want full-length video to go along with hi-rez music. If you do, you're screwed (for now). That is the point I made, and continue to make. Even if you have a Universal player, you can't have both at the same time.
BTW, Universal players don't make everyone happy, as you opined. I've yet to find a "universal" player that doesn't compromise on one or more formats. If a company builds one that does not compromise, I'll buy it! (assuming that it's not been obsoleted by a future format that allows for hi-rez audio AND full-length video) In the meantime, players focused on specific formats tend to be superior to the jack-of-all-trades players.
George Massenburg is a heavyweight in the recording industry. He's an engineer/producer with an impressive resume. His opinions are not to be lightly dismissed. Problem is, Frank's interpretation of the thread poster's interpretation of what Massenburg said is worth exactly what you'd expect third-hand information to be worth.
My interpretaion is partially based on first hand information I got from a surround music conference about 2 years ago attended by George Massenburg. He was fairly optimistic back then...Open your eyes and see what's obvious.
"Open your eyes and see what's obvious."I have, Frank. I see that you obviously enjoy posting your own unsubstantiated opinions as fact.
It's OK, though - uncounted thousands of people do that every day on the Internet. :-)
Open YOUR eyes. Anyone can see that DVD-A is on life support.
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