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In Reply to: Re: Actually, no, i don't consider myself a Guru at all ... posted by Christine Tham on April 28, 2004 at 02:56:08:
"just what do you do with a symphony that plays at 70-80dB for 95% of the time and then go to 120-130dB right at the end?"Adjust for maximum input if you prefer the purist approach or use (mild) dynamic range compression to prevent trouble.
But again it isn't really a problem because the volume levels in a domestic listening environment are scaled down by the volume setting.
And as a consequence any artifacts with it.With 24 bit artifacts are already very low. With proper dither this is not an issue.
PS 120..130dB levels are hardly reached at the usual mic position.
Follow Ups:
*** Adjust for maximum input if you prefer the purist approach ***you do realise then you are effectively recording 95% of the symphony at effectively 16 bits resolution (or less), and the full 24 bits are only used for the last 5%?
*** or use (mild) dynamic range compression to prevent trouble. ***
and just exactly how do you do that? if you do it post A/D, don't bother - you've already lost the resolution and "waisted" (sic) the bits. if you do it pre A/D, you'll have to do it in the analog domain.
tell me Frank, just how many times have you actually done a recording, in live conditions? using what equipment?
***you do realise then you are effectively recording 95% of the symphony at effectively 16 bits resolution (or less), and the full 24 bits are only used for the last 5%?***That's not an issue. What is important is that the samples are 24bit accuracy. (actually 21..22bits with the best of the equipment available today)
You fail to see that distortion and artifacts are far below the signals level. If 16 bits are 'used' at a 70 dB signal then distortion is at least -90dB below that relative level.
***and just exactly how do you do that? if you do it post A/D, don't bother - you've already lost the resolution and "waisted" (sic) the bits. if you do it pre A/D, you'll have to do it in the analog domain.***
You need a compressor/limiter in the analog domain.
***tell me Frank, just how many times have you actually done a recording, in live conditions? using what equipment?
***Running out of valid arguments? :)
I have no experience with recording full orchestra's under live conditions (yet). However I don know how it's supposed to be done.
It's important to setup during a rehearsal to get a starting point for the setup. If you are surprised by a simple loudness issue during a performance of a Mahler or Wagner you didn't came prepared very well.
Frank
please don't use an analog dynamic compressor/peak limiter as you suggest.these things do serious damage. you can pretty much forget ever achieving the full potential of a 16 bit recording, let alone a 24 bit recording, if you use them.
*** You fail to see that distortion and artifacts are far below the signals level. ***no, i never said that recording at effectively 16 bits will not yield anything other than 16 bit accuracy.
you seem to be finally acknowledging *my* point, which is that 24-bit PCM recordings do not always have 24 bit resolution - it depends on the signal strength. due to the need to have headroom during the recording process, most 24-bit PCM recordings are effectively utilising less than 24 bits.
*** I have no experience with recording full orchestra's under live conditions (yet). ***
maybe you should actually try it one day. then perhaps you will appreciate what i am talking about.
i'm not saying i am an expert. i have made more botched recordings than acceptable ones. at least i understand how difficult it is to record under live conditions that make me appreciate why it is an art rather than a science, and salute those who do it well.
*** If you are surprised by a simple loudness issue during a performance of a Mahler or Wagner you didn't came prepared very well.
***perhaps, if you've actually experienced recording under live conditions you will realise it is not about not knowing the material, asking the musicians to play their loudest bits first so you can set gain levels etc etc..
no human set of musicians will play the same piece of music at exactly the same loudness levels twice.
i repeat: never underestimate the dynamic potential of live music. those who do not understand this statement have not done live recording before.
just plugging along what shes read in a pamphlet...hope she doesn't do that for a living...or that shes doing the work "pro bono" for the customers' sake...:-)..even then i dont think theyre getting their moneys worth :)
NT
you getting old man, your posts on this thread have contributed nothing but wasted space, step outside and get some fresh air.I can see you wagging your tail and meek bark of yours everytime you see fit to come in defense of your pals that need none. Your pack mentality works elsewhere...not here...move on...
NT
nt
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