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In Reply to: Interesting thread on "General" posted by Eric LeRouge on March 23, 2004 at 06:20:58:
Follow Ups:
but you can actually like stereo AND multi-channel, you know...Anyway, he seems like a seasoned chap, I hope to get in touch with him some day in Paris :)
Best
there are some that are one side only but most of us like both hi-rez formats. I in particular like both. I just don't like the attitude exemplified by the likes of you - its an either or game and its a zero sum game.
I would rather the purveryors of these formats be held more accountable, not everyone else's system or ears that doesn't find every disc the latest and greatest.I must admit, the hi-rez highway has become much more critical of SACD recently. There may be hope yet. Or perhaps that was just cause Jazz Inmate was banned for awhile and he will once again begin spreading his dogma and the rest of the dogs will pile on. There is a small merry band that likes to stamp on any criticism of SACD and they kind of monopolize postings. You can definitely count on the same suspects everytime!!!
Glad to see you are true to form as well. Thanks for stopping by, hope your visit was a good one. Y'all come back now, ya hear!! Eh!!
...but you can see that some folks will gleefully jump on any quote from someone with a somewhat recognizable name who has bad things (and only rehashed arguments that make little sense, BTW) to say about SACD. That tendency shows them to be far more extreme in their format partisanship than I am personally. Nothing I can do will affect the outcome, so I'm actually rather relaxed about the future.
if you are that happy, then why bother us? I just see it as typical with you as a SACD supporter. Slam anyone who has anything negative to say about SACD.Funny how some of these experts are pretty respected individuals in their fields yet because they say negative comments about SACD, they are "coots", and lack credibility. Same with Dr. AIX among others. Mr. Bishop is clearly in the SACD camp yet I see very little aggressive behaviour towards him. I respect his opinion on things SACD and even DVD-A as he has some experience with that format as well.
You may say you are happy and secure about the future but you don't come across as such. The same disdain shows up towards with anyone that has difficulty hearing differences between SACD and CD. It must be the system or the person doesn't have good enough ears.I mean, if SACD is to become anything more than a niche product, it should be able to respond to more than topnotch systems and golden ears.
They amount to, "Some 1-bit converters are/have been of poor quality, therefore SACD sucks." and "DSD requires noise-shaping to work, therefore SACD sucks." Also, "There aren't enough original DSD recordings, therefore SACD sucks." That was the extent of his sophisticated argument. I react to these the same way you might to the 'DVD-A needs a TV' complaint. He would have been better off confining his comments to sound quality.I don't show disdain towards someone who can't distinguish SACD and CD, only those who insist that their subjective experience is objective truth for the rest of us. :-)
"I don't show disdain towards someone who can't distinguish SACD and CD, only those who insist that their subjective experience is objective truth for the rest of us. :-)"yes of course, yet can you really say you have explored enough to say with full satisfaction your position is right? I mean, have you tried DVD-A and rejected it or have you merely dismissed it outright as a competing format? That is what most of the SACD brigade has done. I see you as making a judgement about something you haven't even explored. I have DVD-a discs, I purchase them I am evaluating it as a format, just like I am SACD. I find good and bad with both.
This should and needs to be discussed further, not dismissed outright as it often is, actually, as you have espoused in your above posts. "Some old coot that trots out the same old arguments". Easy to attack and hide rather than engage and discuss. Regardless of the technology, I hear what I hear and not every SACD is incredible, not every DVD-a is incredible. Actual critical discussion is needed versus blind obsequience. Uriah Heep is more than just a rock band.
...just that when I was looking to get into hi-rez in early 2001, SACD seemed to have more to offer in both hardware and software. That's still true for me where the software is concerned, although the DVD-A /universal hardware situation has moved closer to the SACD selection.
where in this line: "He also apparently dislikes MC, so at best you folks can have a love/hate relationship with this coot." you slammed his arguments.Frank
but didn't anwer my question.PS old arguments can be very true.
Yes, old arguments can be very true...or NOT. I merely pointed out in the first post, that most DVD-A supporters will have to pick and choose what they like amongst Manley's opinions. I will say though, as a hi-rez digital 'expert'...he sure makes a nice phono stage! :-)
The man has his opinions about stereo and multichannel and about dsd versus pcm.I can keep those two different issues apart. Can you?
We may well both think that he's fairly stodgy and conservative, just in different areas. He makes a great phono stage, all the same! :-)
nt
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Mitch Margolis designed the Steelhead. I have never been anybody's daughter-in-law.
Clarification and other history lessons here
and here .
I wondered what you were talking about. I don't think he's had much to do with Manley Labs since EveAnna Manley started running it in 1993; according to his bio he retired in 1996. The Steelhead is way newer than that - came out in 2001. I believe Mitch Margolis was the chief designer.
He wasn't impressed with multichannel sacd's but the Bruckner DVDA recording he mentioned was "absolutely stunning".
"I heard their discs and others in stereo and multichannel on a variety of systems including at least a dozen surround front-ends. I have to say, I was more impressed each and every time with the 2-channel stuff."
Nice try.
Syllogism is Methos's favourite form of provocationCheers
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