Hi,See below. I happen to think that this is a bit over the top. I have tracked a few of this person's posts across AA as well.
I accept that I did not have to respond but I find attacks 'ad hominem', and on the citizenry of a whole country whether Palestinians, or Australians, which is when I just stopped the thread,(see right at the bottom) indicative of very bad manners, at the very least.
When this was after his being reminded that the defeat of a racist fascist (Nazi) Germany is owed to a lot of people, including many Australians. I sometimes wonder why we bothered.
The attitude is not at all pleasant on the audio front either.
A brief summary might be that 'You have to be rich, and arrogant about it, to have a good Hi-Fi system'. Heaps of people DIY and rebuild old stuff, the industry would not survive without them.
I wonder how many people have been turned off audiophiles and audio by such attitudes.
Is this in the hobbies interests?
He does not seem to be a login type member, either.
Timbo
NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists
Posted by marcaudio on June 21, 2002 at 18:45:24
In Reply to: Rant against National Public Radio (OT) posted by Dalancroft on June 20, 2002 at 14:35:57:
I will no longer provide financial support to NPR given their editorial policy of not referring to the Palestinian and Arab terrorist organizations Hamas and Hezbollah et al as terrorists, because, according to an NPR spokesman, the word terrorist is subjective and many people don't view what they are doing as terror. Blowing up innocent Jews is not terror according to the enlightened souls at NPR. George Orwell is spinning in his grave.
* Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists - Timbo in Oz 20:40:41 06/21/02 (8)
In Reply to: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists posted by marcaudio on June 21, 2002 at 18:45:24:
Dear Marc,
I agree that Hezbollah and Hamas, and Al Quaida, are terrorist organisations. True!
The West Bank is the territory of Israel?
No it isn't. Not by any law I would recognise.
So, when is a settler not a settler? When he's trying to expand into somone elses territory and steal most of their water?
You are entitled to your opinions, some of which I share.
Both our country's lost a war in Vietnam, to people who wanted to run their own country enough to accept massive casualties for 30 years.
I know. I was there, in Int. work.
Sad isn't it!
timbo
*
* Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists - marcaudio 06:55:44 06/22/02 (7)
In Reply to: Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists posted by Timbo in OZ on June 21, 2002 at 20:40:41:
The "West Bank" is Biblically known as Judea and Samaria---Judea translates into "Land of the Jews." The Jews have an ancestral connection with the West Bank dating back thousands of years, proven with archaeological evidence. Further, Israel took control of the WB as a result of the '67 War that Israel did not provoke. Further, so-called Palestinians (Arabs, really) have no sovereignty over the West Bank, which was originally the possession of the Turks and, subsequently, the British, and subsequently, the Jordanians. Read a book or two about the history of the Middle East.
* Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists - LarryI 17:20:08 06/24/02 (0)In Reply to: Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists posted by marcaudio on June 22, 2002 at 06:55:44:
Either you should follow your own advice or be less coy than describing the 1967 war as one which Israel did not provoke. The fact is that Israel struck first, as a pre-emptive strike (has there been any war where the party striking the first blow hasn't provided a good justification?).
I am not saying Israel wasn't justified, its just that these sort of issues are never as simple as some people want to make them so that they can be comforted by being on the side of the "right." I applaud NPR for at least trying to inject some nuance into the debate. I have found it particularly dismaying that there is no one in high political office or in influential public opinion-making positions who have the guts to go beyond the comic-book good vs. evil level of discourse.
* Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists - Timbo in Oz 12:19:50 06/22/02 (0)In Reply to: Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists posted by marcaudio on June 22, 2002 at 06:55:44:
Irgun?
the Stern Gang?
I seem to remember these were acknowledged in the Western world as terrorist groups.
No?
I obviously read the wrong books, and watch the wrong history programs on the History Channel. Like the one about the Hotel King David being blown up.
maybe Marc should burn them.
so that there are indeed only 'a book or two about ME history' left?
It is clearly all we should need!
Smile,
timbo
* Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. - Timbo in Oz 09:37:53 06/22/02 (4)
In Reply to: Re: NPR Refuses To Call Terrorists Terrorists posted by marcaudio on June 22, 2002 at 06:55:44:Smile,
I get that you are passionate about this.
I have read some history Mark, and some of the books had widely differing points of view about what's happened in Palestine and the wider Middle East, for a long period of time.
One of the books, "the Bible" - second part called the New Testament - was written about a man, who is reported to have said - 'and the greatest of these is love'. His 'core message', or USP, I'm told.
Which seems to have been a powerful message for many humans since.
Can we live with each other, eh Mark! I like this planet, and breathing!
A couple of other thoughts, on history, and what it is for. Like not being 'doomed to repeat' stuff.
I don't much like the use of "(Arab's really)", a pejorative or at least dismissive usage here, I feel; nor do I like the word Jew as a pejorative, nor Chink, nor Wop, nor Coon, nor Squarehead, nor Gyppo, nor Balt.
My father died from injuries received in a war to stop that sort of nonsense - from Hitler, at that time in history Mark. And, those injuries were received in the Middle East, too Mark.
Australian Infantry (the Rats of Tobruk the 9th Div'n) took the Afrika Korp's Panzers apart, in the last few days of the Battle of El Alamein, November 1942. Britain's first real victory on land.
Why did they die so willingly? Well, they were Australian infantry, professionals, and everyone a volunteer. And the British armour had failed, again (yes?!), so Montie had to use infantry and artillery to keep to his plan to 'crumble' the Germans away from the Italian soldiers. So he used the Divison that wasn't afraid of them, 'cos they'd gotten on top of 'Gerry' in Tobruk. Terrifying battles I'm told,
And I can probably go into a bit of detail about the Ottoman period, the Roman period, the Greek-ish period. The time (during one Crusade) when the Mongols were there. Or, we could discuss the archeological evidence for the Exodus of Israel from Egypt, that might be fun!
Yes, I think I have some knowledge of Middle Eastern history. But its importance to me, against the future, isn't great - except when I think it endangers all our futures.
We are, all of us, 'stuck with' the past, and how it is seen, but we can do something about today and our children's tomorrows.
Being 'stuck in' the past, is just one of several ways of approaching life's issues.
I think a lot of people, reasonable people, throughout the world feel the same way as I do.
Is this difficult for you to accept?
BTW I am a system's analyst. Not a historian, But I do notice parallels in the way human activity develops.
For example, isn't it wonderful that East Timor is now independent.
Timbo
* Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. - marcaudio 10:19:50 06/22/02 (3)In Reply to: Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. posted by Timbo in OZ on June 22, 2002 at 09:37:53:
Well, then please send an urgent request to the dictators of the 21 Arab nations to please show a modicum of compassion and take in the ARAB refugees in Judea and Samaria that they have cold-heartedly abandoned these many years, forcing them live in pathetic squalor. And, please ask the ARAB Palestinians to stop blowing up Jewish school buses, and perhaps Israel will once again make a magnificent, though not necessary, gesture and grant the ARAB Palestinians a (nother) so-called homeland (Jordan being the first ARAB Palestinian homeland, of course). In any event, I don't stay up nights worrying that what the world needs now is yet another repressive ARAB country run by a dictator (Arafat or whoever) that does not honor human rights, does not have Democratic principles, and straps bombs onto their kiddies and send them into civilian neighborhoods--What a lovely bunch of "neighbors" Israel is blessed with :)
* Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. - Timbo in Oz 11:49:58 06/22/02 (2)In Reply to: Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. posted by marcaudio on June 22, 2002 at 10:19:50:
Marc,
Why don't you send the plea?
I don't think they'll listen to you anyway, one reason being they're pissed off, and another because they don't recognise their, or any other, side of the story.
Don't change anything that you've put, 'cos it is true, just add some stuff that is also true. Study their history.
Helps, when you want peace, to be able to do that.
Helps in just about any other negotiation I've ever been involved in.
Helps in soldiering, too.
Sadly, killing doesn't always end the argument, nor does taking ground, or territory 'to live in'. Systems do tend to 'limit'.
Timbo
* Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. - Timbo in Oz 12:02:47 06/22/02 (1)In Reply to: Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. posted by Timbo in OZ on June 22, 2002 at 11:49:58:
Here is a joke that was circulating in Australia a while back among quite conservative people. Republican clones.
That I didn't write it, and that many people laughed ought to give you, Marc, some pause.
"If an Insect Falls in Your Cup of Coffee in a Cafe ....
1.an Englishman: Throws the cup away and walks out of the cafe
2.an American: Takes the insect out and drinks the coffee
3.a Chinese: Eats the insect and throws the coffee away 4.an Israeli:
* Sells the coffee to the American and the insect to the Chinese
* Screams that his security is in peril
* TV stations worldwide will start showing WW2 & holocaust films
* Accuses the Palestinians of throwing the insect in his coffee
* Alleges that Hezbollah, the Syrians and the Iranians advocate attacks with weapons of mass insects
* Relates this vicious attack to Palestinian Terrorism, Attacks on Human Rights, Anti-Semitism, the Holocaust, the Diaspora, the Exodus, discrimination on Noah's Ark
* Asks Arafat to immediately stop insects from flying in the air or landing in coffee cups
* Re-occupies the West Bank and Gaza, razes houses, cuts off water and electricity, humiliates and terrorizes civilians, kills or maims anyone in his way calling everyone terrorist.
* Insists on more American military aid
* Demands a 100-year, billion-dollar, loan from America to buy another cup of coffee
* Claims life-time free coffee from the cafe as compensation."
sad isn't it.
* Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. - marcaudio 18:42:33 06/22/02 (0)In Reply to: Re: Not sure I'm 'allowed' to say what I'm saying, it's called disagreeing. posted by Timbo in OZ on June 22, 2002 at 12:02:47:
The only sad thing is that Israel is not allowed to live in peace because of your Arab buddies who, as Bernard Lewis points out in his book, "What Went Wrong," the Arabs are deeply humiliated by Israel's monumental success and ability to advance in the modern world, as opposed to the failed Arab nations.
Oh, by the way, do you live in Australia? You have my condolences.
