In Reply to: Wrong again posted by Charles Hansen on December 17, 2005 at 15:54:33:
*** There are many implementations of HDCD playback. ***Good, we agree.
*** There are only one-and-a-half implementations of HDCD encoding ***
But there's nothing preventing future implementations that are not designed by Keith, since the technology is owned by Microsoft, and they can license it to anyone.
And last time you said HDCD was "A really good sounding A/D converter designed by Keith Johnson".
Can I suggest "one-and-a-half" is greater than "one"? So you are contradicting yourself.
*** I'll say it again, as you didn't seem to catch it the first time. The main reason that HDCD sounds good has *very little* to do with the compansion that is alleged to be the heart of the HDCD process. ***
For reference, this is the full text of what I originally said, which you think somehow "misses the point":
*** One disadvantage of listening to HDCDs without the decoder is that on some discs (which have been encoded with "Peak Extend") you will lose about 6dB of dynamic range (ie. peaks between 0 to -6 dBFS will be "compressed").
However, not all discs are encoded with Peak Extend. The Joni Mitchell ones are, but the Mike Oldfield ones aren't, and they are the only two artists I have on HDCD. ***
Where in this text do I imply that HDCD quality is related to "the compansion that is alleged to be the heart of the HDCD process"?
I simply pointed a specific feature of HDCD called Peak Extend that will not be decoded properly by a non-HDCD player.
You, on the other hand, said that HDCD was "A compansion (compression/expansion) system that worked perfectly." (which implies that HDCD is nothing but a compansion system, which is not true). So, the only person you are calling out "wrong" is your own self.
*** In fact, the compansion can be switched off by the mastering engineer. ***
In fact, aren't you just repeating what I said? *** "Peak Extend" is another HDCD command, and it can be turned on or off at will. ***
*** Good sounding analog circuits, clocks, power supplies, et cetera designed by Keith Johnson. ***
But you've already said that "There are many implementations of HDCD playback." In particular, not all of them are designed by Keith Johnson, so again you are contradicting yourself.
*** And if you stop to think about it for a second, you will realize that exactly zero of these sonic benefits require HDCD capabilities by the playback machine. ***
But if you stop to think about it for a second, you will realise ONE sonic benefit, which is Peak Extend, DOES require HDCD capabilities by the playback machine. Which was my point in the first place, hence my post.
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Follow Ups
- Yikes! - Christine Tham 22:38:27 12/17/05 (54)
- You've COMPLETELY missed Charles' main retort on your "Peak Extend" argument... - Steve Cortez 01:31:21 12/18/05 (53)
- No - Charles is just plain wrong, or at least very self serving - Christine Tham 12:08:43 12/18/05 (52)
- blah blah blah... the only one PUSHING a point is you... - Steve Cortez 15:28:54 12/18/05 (51)
- why are you so angry? - Christine Tham 22:12:04 12/18/05 (50)
- You are way off base - Charles Hansen 12:01:38 12/19/05 (49)
- No Charles, it is you who is off base - Christine Tham 15:21:21 12/19/05 (48)
- Reading comprehension an issue? - Charles Hansen 21:26:14 12/19/05 (47)
- Re: Reading comprehension an issue? - Martin419 08:23:52 12/21/05 (0)
- Wow - racerguy 07:11:29 12/21/05 (1)
- I stand corrected - Charles Hansen 09:48:09 12/21/05 (0)
- Maybe you could do with a crash course on how to use search as well? - Christine Tham 23:11:37 12/19/05 (43)
- You want an apology? - Charles Hansen 22:17:21 12/20/05 (38)
- Perhaps it is you who has reading comprehension issues? - Christine Tham 00:59:31 12/22/05 (18)
- This is just silly - Charles Hansen 09:08:41 12/22/05 (17)
- Who is being silly? - Christine Tham 11:49:06 12/22/05 (16)
- That would be you - Charles Hansen 20:27:20 12/22/05 (15)
- Re: That would be you - Christine Tham 15:23:38 12/23/05 (14)
- Re: That would be you - Charles Hansen 20:14:53 12/23/05 (13)
- Re: That would be you - Christine Tham 00:01:07 12/24/05 (12)
- Figure 3: Digital rip of an HDCD without Peak Extend - Christine Tham 00:09:39 12/24/05 (9)
- Figure 4: Output of WMP (no Peak Extend) - Christine Tham 00:11:08 12/24/05 (8)
- By the way, here are some stats on the non decoded vs decoded outputs - Christine Tham 00:28:38 12/24/05 (7)
- Thanks for posting these graphs - Charles Hansen 10:51:35 12/24/05 (6)
- Re: Thanks for posting these graphs - Christine Tham 12:12:00 12/24/05 (5)
- This is just silly - Charles Hansen 14:46:22 12/24/05 (4)
- HDCD is defined by the patent, not the implementation - Christine Tham 22:38:00 12/24/05 (3)
- Oh, that's right... - Charles Hansen 13:06:23 12/25/05 (2)
- And your point is? - Christine Tham 15:31:48 01/03/06 (1)
- Yep, yep, and yep. - Charles Hansen 19:43:56 01/03/06 (0)
- Figure 1: Digital rip of an HDCD with Peak Extend - Christine Tham 00:04:18 12/24/05 (1)
- Figure 2: WMP decoded output of the track - Christine Tham 00:06:28 12/24/05 (0)
- Charles you do owe Christine an apology, because you are dead wrong. Christine has it 100% correct. - Teresa 06:51:43 12/21/05 (18)
- Hmmm... - Charles Hansen 09:34:25 12/21/05 (17)
- Charles I have found some links to help you understand HDCD better: - Teresa 19:38:30 12/21/05 (3)
- Re: Charles I have found some links to help you understand HDCD better: - Charles Hansen 20:07:24 12/21/05 (2)
- Thanks for the links Charles, it will take a while to read all of these. - Teresa 20:46:09 12/21/05 (1)
- You're welcome - Charles Hansen 22:00:32 12/21/05 (0)
- Still waiting for that apology ... - Christine Tham 16:52:05 12/21/05 (12)
- You are still confused - Charles Hansen 19:52:19 12/21/05 (11)
- Re: You are still confused - Christine Tham 00:01:40 12/22/05 (10)
- Taking a page from W - Charles Hansen 09:11:58 12/22/05 (9)
- Re: Taking a page from W - Christine Tham 11:54:11 12/22/05 (8)
- I guess we agree on one thing - Charles Hansen 20:03:13 12/22/05 (7)
- Re: I guess we agree on one thing - Christine Tham 15:25:13 12/23/05 (6)
- Re: I guess we agree on one thing - Charles Hansen 20:16:22 12/23/05 (5)
- Re: I guess we agree on one thing - Christine Tham 00:38:47 12/24/05 (4)
- Once again you are wrong - Charles Hansen 11:00:41 12/24/05 (3)
- I don't think you know the meaning of the word "wrong", since you are not applying it correctly - Christine Tham 12:25:41 12/24/05 (2)
- You have gone beyond obstinence... - Charles Hansen 18:49:44 12/24/05 (1)
- Sorry, but you haven't really given any evidence - Christine Tham 22:47:18 12/24/05 (0)
- I did find the HDCD patent (#5,479,168) - Christine Tham 23:30:02 12/19/05 (3)
- Christine -- give it a rest. You were interesting once. nt. - Martin419 02:58:46 12/21/05 (2)
- I'm sure Christine will as soon as Charles apologizes. She is 100% correct BTW. (nt) - Teresa 07:00:12 12/21/05 (1)
- Thanks, Teresa (nt) - Christine Tham 17:03:58 12/21/05 (0)