In Reply to: Part 3: Comparison of Diana Krall's Look of Love on SACD, DVD-A, CD posted by Christine Tham on June 14, 2004 at 01:24:50:
Some questions- Why are the maximum and minimum sample values different for each of the formats? If you compare the same sample, they should be identical (or very close?). The maximum and minimum sample values are not the same for the DSD version and for the normalized DSD version, how can that be? Along the same line, the maximum sample value for DSD 'normalized' that you describe is not the same as the one in the statistics... does it mean that the peak that you analyze is different from the samples?
- Why are DVD-A and CD in 24 bit resolution, when DSD normalized is at 32 bit? (I don't think that changes anything, but I'm curious why)
- I see the clipping on the charts, but not in the tables (actually, the normalized DSD gets clipped in one sample?)
- When doing the statistics, had you already filtered the sample as described in the end, or was it before? I'm not sure this makes a difference, but... again, curious.
Clipping and loudnessAs for the point made in the paper. I think you illustrate why PCM sources usually sound "louder" (and better to many people), and why you have to crank up the volume on DSD recordings. You also show the clipping in the DVD-Audio, directly related to the original clipping on the CD.
So if you have no clipping in the DSD, it can mean many things: the transfer from analog tapes has been done more carefully for the DSD , or DSD handles dynamics better than PCM. It may also mean that clipping has been avoided by using a very good limiter...
Re: dynamics.
Maybe I didn't understand a few things, but: in my little mind, if the difference between minima and maxima is greater over a sample, you have "more" dynamics, and RMS power measures that. It takes many operations in your paper to demonstrate higher dynamics: first normalizing, then computing an average, and then comparing the maximum to that average... when the original difference is actually higher for the DVD-A and CD than for SACD?
A contrario, if you have higher and faster peaks in the DSD version, and if this is consistent throughout the sample, then shouldn't you have a greater difference between minima and maxima in the statistics?
Missing samples and ultrasonic noiseYour missing frequencies phenomenon is very strange. I record my SACDs up to 24/192 and they show truckloads of ultrasonic noise, but I have never noticed that frequencies are missing? Tonight I'll check specifically the Diana Krall Look of Love SACD (I don't have the DVD-Audio, and it's not available here in Europe), to see if I find the same problem.
BTW: I still wonder about whether I should get rid of all that noise when I record SACDs, did you notice any difference on your system before and after you used the filter?
Best
Eric
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Follow Ups
- Some things I don't understand - Eric LeRouge 09:55:10 06/14/04 (24)
- Some answers - Frank.. 13:39:57 06/14/04 (23)
- Some more answers - Christine Tham 14:37:36 06/14/04 (22)
- Thanks Christine - Eric LeRouge 11:25:37 06/15/04 (21)
- OK, here's what I found on my end (HOT PICS of Diana Krall inside :) - Eric LeRouge 12:56:35 06/16/04 (3)
- Re: OK, here's what I found on my end (HOT PICS of Diana Krall inside :) - Frank.. 14:14:39 06/16/04 (1)
- Re: OK, here's what I found on my end (HOT PICS of Diana Krall inside :) - Eric LeRouge 14:24:39 06/16/04 (0)
- Very interesting! Thank you! - Christine Tham 13:49:15 06/16/04 (0)
- Re: Thanks Christine - Christine Tham 16:35:13 06/15/04 (16)
- 1-1 - Frank.. 00:12:56 06/16/04 (15)
- Re: 1-1 - Christine Tham 04:49:31 06/16/04 (13)
- You probably missed it...(link) - Frank.. 05:39:56 06/16/04 (12)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Christine Tham 14:08:19 06/17/04 (11)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Frank.. 14:56:57 06/17/04 (10)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Christine Tham 22:29:26 06/17/04 (9)
- Sorry , probably a bad internet connection.(nt) - Frank.. 02:08:02 06/18/04 (0)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Frank.. 01:37:24 06/18/04 (0)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Frank.. 01:34:56 06/18/04 (0)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Frank.. 01:33:07 06/18/04 (5)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Christine Tham 03:20:38 06/18/04 (4)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Frank.. 10:58:55 06/18/04 (3)
- Re: You probably missed it...(link) - Christine Tham 15:43:56 06/18/04 (2)
- You're diverting the issue.. - Frank.. 12:38:47 06/19/04 (1)
- the point was .. - Christine Tham 00:39:44 06/20/04 (0)
- What the Dutch really need is a new Van Basten :) - Eric LeRouge 04:08:30 06/16/04 (0)