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Walker,Maple Shade, and a few others market various forms of silver paste that you can treat fuses,speaker terminals,etc, with to increase conductivity from one connector to another.
I have the first generation Walker product that is not cryogenic treated, my general experience has not been good, to my ears it seems to change the sound of my system in a way that is difficult to put into words but I usually end up carefully cleaning the stuff off of whatever I put it on.
It seems no matter how careful I am I usually end up shorting out an RCA if I try it on an interconnect.
Has anyone tried the cryogenic treated version and compared it against the non cryo version?
Have most of you had positive experiences with this stuff?
Has anyone tried the product marketed by audiomod?
Follow Ups:
...regarding using certain contact enhancers:
Out of curiosity I read the link you provided. I agree that people can overuse contact enhancers and not follow manufacturer's directions. Jena is correct when she says some contact enhancers require more then household rubbing alcohol to remove, the two that come to mind is Walker Audio SST and Silclear. Quicksilver Gold is easily removed with rubbing alcohol. I have owned all three mentioned above and have applied and removed many times. And FWIW in my experience, Caig Labs’ “DeoxIT® SHIELD sounds like shit. If you use Caig Labs Deoxit products, make sure you use rubbing alcohol to remove after you clean the mechanical contact.
My 2 cents worth.
Chris
Note, please, how Jena Labs will happily sell you THEIR contact enhancer (which obviously is magically capable of avoiding all the pitfalls of 'conventional' contact enhancers. Hmmmmmm....)
I love 'scare' tactics from manufacturers who want you to dump YOUR product (which they make no money on) and buy their 'better' product (which they DO make money on!)
Now I'm not saying Jena Labs doesn't make good products, including contact enhancers. Perhaps theirs is the best. Who knows? (I suspect JL will tell you theirs is the best. Surprise!) But scare tactics and warranty voiding in the face of a clear profit motive and somewhat deceptive claims regarding the 'safety' of other competitor's products, makes me HIGHLY suspicious of the statements made in the link provided. Further, their chosen methodology for removal also seems deliberately overly complicated so as to continue the scare tactics and frighten audiophiles into accepting their position. Pierre Sprey would burst into laughter at the suggested histrionics necesary to 'clean' misapplied goop. I have personally spoken to Pierre about this very subject, and he said that Silclear is easily removed with kerosene on a Q-tip or a dry, lint-free cloth. I checked it out; he's right. So, DON'T PANIC (as the HIthchiker's Guide To The Galaxy exhorts us.)
Besides, if people are ignorant enough to slather these competitor's products on to the point that they actually can run and lead to internal shorts, they get what they deserve. Like I said previously, if you can plainly see the contact enhancer residue on your connector with your naked eyes, you've used TOO MUCH! There is no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater, just don't dunk the kid's head under for minutes at a time. Again, restraint and conservatism are watchwords here. Go slow, go minimal.
Of course, anyone who wants to shake in their boots because a profit-minded company makes dubious claims about other's products while offering their own as a substitute, hey!, knock yourself out, babe! Me, I choose not to live in fear based on dubious 'facts' proffered by those with a financial motive to potentially mislead us in the matter. That's how we get into wars and such, by not fully examining the supposed 'facts' and justifications that are offered, but instead merely accepting such inflammatory rhetoric and allowing others to do our thinking for us, rather than be bothered with having to make a calm, rational analysis of the matter on our own.
All that said, let me thank you for your post. You obviously were affected by the Jena Labs warning enough to raise the issue. And I will assume you meant it in the absolute best of faith, trying to draw our attention to a problem you believe exists, and CERTAINLY one that any Jena Lab cables owner would definitely want to know about. But when a cited article carries plainly within it an obvious profit motive that literally JUMPS out at you, one must view the entirety of what is said under the microscope of suspicion and skepticism, especially when what is said flies directly in the face of the experience of the undersigned audiophile and countless others who use these products without any hint of audio armageddon melt-downs. Again, CAREFUL application of contact enhancers will obviate the potential for such an event taking place.
...and have had no negative issues that I am aware of. I tend to believe that you are correct in that "moderation" in usage is the key to avoid this "migration" of the product to potentially cause any shorts or problems. I only brought this warning up from their website to get some opinions. Thank you for yours.
I assume you really like the QS Gold, as you use it. Is it easy to apply? How do you remove it? What benefits did you derive from its use? Did you compare its effect to any other contact enhancers? I am seriously thinking of getting some, regardless of the somewhat outrageous price. Your opinion on these matters is very important to me (as was stator 99's). Any places I could get it at a reasonably discounted price? (Anyone want to go in halvsies with me on a purchase? Seriously! I'm in the LA area.) This stuff likely works very well. Indeed, based on the testimonials I've seen it appears to work wonders. But as always, everyone's MMV.
I am going to explore the Jena Labs website. I want to see if this company is making well reasoned claims regarding their cables, whether their pricing is relatively sane, etc. I was a little shocked by the severity of the language and tactics used in the link you provided. Further investigation is warranted. Maybe they're completely on the up and up, and this is their heartfelt belief about contact enhancers. Maybe not. The way they present themselves and their various contentions in their web site will go a long way in helping to determine what they are up to. Hopefully, it's all good. (BTW: Do you own any Jena cables? Know anyone who does? Opinion about them?)
Thanks again for your reply, especially letting me know your own view and usage of contact enhancers. I'll look forward to your observations and opinions. They really are quite appreciated.
Happy New Year and HAPPY LISTENING!!
FWIW, I’m a long-standing fan (and owner) of Jena Labs products. I speak to the proprietor and lead designer, Jennifer Crock, at least once a week, and she’s proved herself to be one of the most knowledgeable audio people I’ve ever met. Her beliefs about silver-based enhancers are her own and don’t carry a particular agenda. She feels strongly about them, though, having repaired numerous pieces of gear that were damaged by misapplication of these enhancers, and that passion comes through on her website—perhaps too strongly for some people’s tastes. But I can assure you of one thing: She is not using that webpage to push her own product. In fact, she doesn’t make a commercially available contact enhancer. The product she does make is made in very small batches and usually only winds up in the hands of friends and fellow industry people.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m all for silver-based treatments if they make a worthwhile improvement in people’s systems. Though I did get skittish about the application issues, the main reason I stopped using them was because, in my rigs, I didn’t hear improvements, only changes.
As for Jena Labs, Jennifer’s motives are sincere, if strongly worded. And, IMO, her cables and AC products are world-class and deserve much more press than they get. But that’s just one man’s opinion. They’re quite worthy of investigation, regardless.
Thanks Quint, it's good to hear that about Jena cables. Glad to hear also that the cables, etc. that Jena Labs produces are fine products, as well.
Things just looked a little askew with that link, but your post has helped dispell suspicions about the potential for duplicity. Just wish she wouldn't have mentioned that she's got a product to replace those she criticizes on the very same page. There's a little concept known as avoiding the appearance of impropriety. Next time she'd be best served by merely having the products available and easily found on her site, but not touting them alongside very harsh allegedly fact-based criticisms she levels at other producers of similar products. It's okay when the ad copy is obviously puffery; we see that all the time and think nothing of it. Of course a manufacturer will inevitably think their product is best. No quarrel with that at all. But this wasn't puffery, this was an all-out nuclear assault on metallic-based contact enhancers. And that comes across more as a factual assertion, a "You Are Warned" type approach that will unnecessarily and unfairly scare some neophyte audiophiles into submission, and into avoiding a potentially useful set of products that could bring greater enjoyment of their music, IF applied properly (but that's a big "if", apparently.)
Again, thanks for your comments. You cleared up a few things quite well. I hope maybe I'll get a chance to hear Jena Cables sometime. Because frankly, any time there is a lady involved in anything audio related, I want to be as supportive as I can. We need more women in this hobby, especially as manufacturers, as the biological fact of life is that these female critters hear MUCH better than us male critters (probably because they're smart enough not to blow out their ear drums with hyper-loud music in their carefree days of youth!) My wife's ears sure have incredible high frequency extension. Why, she can even hear me thinking naughty thoughts about those ubiquitous honeys we all see on nearly every beer commercial.
Now, THAT's great hearing!
All the best!
Winston
What is the best treatment for a short resulting from the application of too much Silclear?
I shorted out my preamp RCA's with the Walker product and just used lots of patience along with rubbing alcohol,and Caig Pro Gold, I went through a lot of Q-Tips and pipe cleaners throwing away all of the soiled ones to avoid cross contamination.
I have been using contact enhancers for about 5 or so years. Used in every application possibly emaginable (except tube pins) within an A/V system. I have used Silclear, Walker Audio SST (cryoed) and Quick Silver Gold. I have on countless occasions while experimenting with fuses, cabling inside components and system cabling, removed the contact enhancer then evaluate. Then re-applied the contact enhancer, let the system settle-in/break-in and evaluate again. So here is my take on contact enhancers in my system and a few other systems that I assisted with the application of the contact enhancers...
By far the best is Quick Silver Gold. Quick Silver Gold is so much better in my experience that I would never again recommend any of the others I have tried. To my ears, Quick Silver Gold does improve the sound of connectors from Oyaide and Furutech (I have both Oyaide and Furutech connectors in my system). I cannot remember for sure, but I do not think Quick silver Gold actually has any gold in it. If you want to know for sure about the contents, contact the manufacturer. I have spoken to the owner and designer at length before purchasing the Quick Silver Gold, really nice guy. By the way, my entire system is treated with Quick Silver Gold. Took me two entire days to remove the Walker SST and apply the Quick Silver Gold. I did try the Quick Silver Gold in a few places in my system before taking the plunge and treating my entire system.
I have never experienced a short using contact enhancers. As previous posters have mentioned, how much and how the contact enhancers are applied is the key. Follow the directions of the manufacturer. I cannot remember with Silclear, but Walker Audio SST when dried will get hard and could flake. Quick Silver Gold does not flake.
There is a break-in period for contact enhancers. For Silclear and Walker SST it takes a few days of system use. For Quick Silver Gold the break-in is much longer. Quick Silver Gold takes at least 3 weeks for the system to settle and the break-in continues. If you critically evaluate sooner you will probably be dissapointed.
I cannot remember now regarding the Silclear, the Walker SST will add a bit of top end extension like most silver cabling and the system seems a bit cleaner. Quick Silver Gold is completely different. The easiest way for me to verbalize what Quick Silver Gold does is that it adds delicacy to the mid range and higher frequencies, truer timbre (to all sounds) and increases micro and macro detail.
In my opinion, for anyone with a mid-fi to Ultra-fi system, Quick Silver Gold is a must try. My 2 cents on the topic. Oh yah the disclaimer, YMMV and I don't sell Quick Silver Gold or any other contact enhancer and am not affiliated in any way with a contact enhancer manufacturer.
Chris
Agree with cdc on the break-in time. Makes A/Bs a real PITA, though. You can get an over-all flavor, I suspect, if you go back and forth (another real PITA, too!) so it's worth trying anyway. But as with all things audio, break-in time must be considered when evaluating. Thanks to cdc for reminding everyone of that!
Interesting findings on the QS Gold, cdc. Heard good things about their stuff, but never tried it. Hell, anyone else interested should probably try them all, too, and see which ones they like in their own system, and report back. As always, YMMV!
PITA is a nice way of putting it if treating an entire A/V system. Especially if going inside gear! I just re-read your post. I am trying to remember my experience with Silclear. The only thing I remember is that I liked the Walker SST better at the time. If you like the Silclear, you will be thrilled with the Quick Silver Gold. In my system, Quick Silver Gold puts the Walker SST to shame. Quick Silver Gold is much more expensive then Silclear, but dude it is worth every cent. Especially if you have a nice system. Peace out...
Chris
cdc-
Checked out your system. SWEET! Looks like a HT delight. Way cool! Hope you enjoy the hell out of it often!
DEFINITELY will look into the QS Gold. (I suspect that there isn't any gold in it, either.) If I recall, the guy who makes it used to be a partner with RAM, but I could be wrong there. A re-do of the whole system's contacts is quite daunting, but may be worth an afternoon to invest if it yields the results you suggest it might. The Silclear's been just fine for me, as I use it mostly to prevent oxidation and not because it had an overwhelming positive effect sonically. But I use such friggin' small amounts of the stuff, maybe that's why I don't hear a huge difference. The difference I hear is just a little more openess, airiness and detail, but without any glare (thankfully!) I'll have to try this QS Gold sometime. If I do, I'll certainly let you know!
Thanks for the great post, BTW. I LOVE IT when folks share their audio experiences. It's so nice! What a great community we have here. And thanks again for your contributions. I know they got me thinking!
You are welcome. I should update my system specs on AA. My system is more complex now. Tweaking my system has been my main hobby this year. Every chance I get, tweaking the system is all I do and enjoy/listen to the system.
You are right, you don't use much of the contact enhancer. But then again, it depends on how complex your system is. I also get inside the components and treat fuses, IEC connections (many of my IECs are Furutech with screw down terminals), signal and power jumpers, inside of power cord connections, all power socket blades, video connections, basically any mechanical metal to metal connection. Since you do not use a lot, you may want to see if you can get 2-3 friends to go in with you.
One other thing I found to be very effective. Alan Maher taught me this trick about a year ago... Lightly polish the mechanical connection with polishing steel wool and Caig ProGold 100% solution or Caig ProGold G5. Buff with a cotton pad. At this point, the connector will be really shiny (like it was polished...lol) Then remove any traces of the ProGold with rubbing alcohol and then apply the Quicksilver Gold. You will hear a difference. The polishing before use or before Quicksilver Gold application seems to lower the noise floor. The polishing of the connection and then use of the Quicksilver Gold is a very nice and inexpensive upgrade to a system.
Chris
cdc-
Been polishing for years with that Flitz blue goop and a dremel mounted with a bristle brush, followed by a good rubbing with the Flitz rag. A gazillion RPMs for a few minutes with the dremel and Wow! Also, no scratching or scoring! And talk about shiny! So I couldn't agree more with you and Alan on how to prepare connectors (and now you know why it takes me a full afternoon to re-do my connectors!) And yes, I clean and treat all those areas you mentioned, at least to the extent they exist in my system. (Again, that's why it takes 5 hours!) You can't skimp on the cleaning, or why do it?
As for the Caig ProGold, I'm glad Alan has you strip that stuff off before going any further. I cannot understand why people like to leave that stuff on, as it just destroys the sound quality in my system. (It IS good for stripping gunk off, though.) In fact, a friend in the industry who is good friends with an engineer over at Hoffman's remixing/recording facility here in LA, said he told the engineer (who shall remain nameless) what I thought about ProGold, and the engineer agreed completely that ProGold rolls off the high frequencies, diffuses the mid-range and fattens up the bass. (Gee, no wonder it's so popular!) In his words, it simply gets between connection surfaces and adds a euphonic (?) distortion that many audiophiles find beneficial to their systems. (Unfortunately for me, not so beneficial in my system, that is!)
The use of these products from Caig to strip stuff away is just fine, but to leave it on is a mistake, IMHO. Another example: when I got my new tubes from ARC for my highly modified CL 150's, I couldn't believe how shitty they sounded. Rolled-off highs and inner detailing, diffuse mids and a bloated, tubby bass. So I called ARC and found out that they treat ALL their tube's pins with ProGold before sending them out. Great! So there I was, cleaning each friggin' tube pin (and that's a LOT of tube pins!) into the wee hours of the night. You can bet I was enjoying EVERY minute of it (Like Maxwell Smart always said, "... AND LOVING IT!") Oh well, one man's drink ..........
Will definitely check out that QS Gold stuff soon. Thanks again.
BTW, it sure sounds like you LOVE tweaking! GREAT! Have you been to tweakaudio.com (i.e., Ric Schultz' website for EVS)? If you love tweaking, you'll love Ric, I can guarantee it! Check him out, he's super reasonable in pricing and very, very tweaky. Lots to learn at that site, no doubt. Free tweaks that work are always nice. And his tweaks WORK! You'll be stoked, I promise.
Best wishes,
Winston
I will checkout tweakaudio.com. Thanks for the heads up!
Best Regards,
Chris
I just Silcleared a bunch of connectors yesterday and have some definite help here for anyone who cares to listen.
First, if you've got 'flakes' of the stuff coming off as you pull your plugs and connectors out, you are definitely USING TOO MUCH!! That's why you're stuff is shorting out! The amount to use is about an ANGSTROM deep. Okay, maybe not an angstrom, but you get the idea.
Here is how you apply the stuff CORRECTLY: Take a fine tip artist's paint brush or similar applicator (NEVER a Q-tip!) and LIGHTLY dip the tip of the brush into the goo. You need only a TINY dab of the stuff on brush's tip, that's ALL. Brush the Silclear on the blades or prongs or RCA male hot connector and PAINT IT ON SUPER THIN. Just keep going over it and over it until you spread it out as thinly as possible. Next, take a LINT-FREE optical wiper cloth and put a little Silclear on the cloth (and I mean a little) and then gently and carefully wipe the Silclear off the spade or plug or blade, using the area on the cloth where you placed the TINY amount of Silclear previously. This will allow you wipe off the Silclear while leaving the thinnest, most effective coating possible. The Silclear should NEVER be gooped on and used with a thick application, as that is a recipie for disaster, i.e., shorting out! (Not to mention, BAD SOUND!) The coating should be basically visible ONLY as the very slightest silvery 'sheen' on the plugs or prongs you are using. If you can plainly see the stuff on your connector, you've used too much, period! Ideally, you should need a jeweler's eyepiece to see the stuff (especially if you're old, like me), and again, only as the very slightest silvery sheen on the connector.
If applied correctly, these things can and do work nicely as protection against corrosion and a slight improvement in signal transfer effect (but mostly preventing oxidation, frankly) especially if you use bare copper everywhere (like me.)
On another topic of note, gold-based products used to enhance signal transfer seems misplaced to me, however. My own sonic experimentations has shown conclusively that gold coatings tends to s-l-o-w things down, bloat the bass, diffuse and soften the mids and highs, and roll-off the extreme highs quite dramatically. (The experiment? Take two identical gold-direct-to-copper RCAs and make a pair of IC cables with them using, say, Wonder Wire with a cotton insulator --very cheap and easy. Listen and insure equality of peformance between them before proceeding firther. Once sonic parity is established, buff off the gold plating on the RCA male's hot pins using Flitz or any comercial jewelry polishing mix, and then listen once more. You'll never think highly of gold's effect in audio again!)
While in certain hyper-aggressive systems this gold-effect may be beneficial, it usually is not welcome in refined, well-balanced systems with reasonably flat FRs. Of course, YMMV and feel free to experiment. If gold works for you in your system, EXCELLENT! But the common view is gold is slow and fat, silver is fast and slightly thinner, and copper is in the middle. Thus, these are simply tools to be used as your system needs. Who cares what anyone else thinks? As long as you are happy and hear a difference in your system, BUY IT and USE IT!
But as for these products like Silclear and SST being 'scary' or 'prone to shorts', that is simply because of misapplication of the product. If the product is carefully applied SPARINGLY, it works fine. Lastly, regarding signal shorts, remember to NEVER coat the RCA male inner ground connector sleeve, but rather, the RCA female's exterior ground, which is MUCH easier to apply to and to rub in. If you try to paint that interior of the male ground you'll almost assuredly gets some across the bottom of your connector, thus creating a signal short. By painting on the thinnest coatings on the male RCA pin and the female ground, then carefully rubbing/buffing the contact enhancer so as to leave thinnest possible sheen, I think you'll really experience what these products can do. Like I said in an earlier post on this subject at the 'Gon, if you are using up your Silclear or SST during your lifetime, you're using WAY too much! This stuff should be used so sparingly that it could be passed from generation to generation via testamentary devise!
Happy New Year and HAPPY LISTENING!
FWIW, I’ve tried the Walker E-SST, QuickSilver Gold, and SilClear. They all changed the sound to varying degrees, but I never found one that I really liked long-term and that delivered a natural, even-handed presentation. The chance of a short also scared the crap out of me. In addition, the Walker, in particular, hardened over time and would flake off when I pulled my ICs out. A lot of people swear by silver treatments, but I’m no longer one of them.
For me, Quicksilver Gold is primarily a treatment for speaker cable spades, although I have used it when making PC's. For stuff that goes internal like rca's and PC plugs, I simply clean with DeOxit and ProGold.
I've used Silclear with good results. Obviously, you have to be quite careful to avoid the shorting problem. Used as recommended - not more than 1/3 way up the pins - it works fine.
Over time on really finely polished pieces, like the Oyaides and the Furutechs, I abandoned the Silclear in favor of simply treating with CAIG ProGold. That works fine too. Didn't test the difference, just a decision based on my understanding of how the silver stuff works.
I cannot understand why anyone would apply contact enhancer to an Oyaide product considering the lengths that Oyaide goes to in the polishing process of their AC plug blades/receptacle contacts.Seems counterintuitive to me although many years ago I found a positive benefit by applying contact enhancer to Arrow Hart receptacles/Marinco AC plugs :-)
Cheers
I shorted out 1/4 of a quad of Sylvania black plate 6bq5's. No more.
Oh by the way, I found the sound to kind of smeary after application.
oops....the last sentence should have read; have any of you tried the stuff sold by " reference audio mods "
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