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Hi All,For my old SF Power 1 input drivers. Are there any of the above described 6922's available? I need 6 if I'm retubing, so NOS are NOGO. Chris at parts connection recommended some Russian 6n23P-EV's, but $100/pair is too much at the moment. Also recommended KT-120's, which are doable for me, but need something a bit more affordable for the 6922's. Current ones are Ei's from probably 15 or more years ago.I also have the original OEM's somewhere, I don't know if their Sovtek or Svetlana (original 6550's were Svetlana). Sadly my GE's are all gone now and I definitely can't afford those anymore.
I'm looking at new amp alternatives as well, so I don't want to spend a fortune.
Edits: 07/29/21Follow Ups:
All 6 don't have to be the same. One tube per channel is critical and the other two not so much. You can balance your budget for best results. But unfortunately I don't know which positions.
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
That's what I had been told years ago by someone who had the same amp and was selling some allegedly NOS Mullard E88C's. They were cheap so I bought a couple. I never heard a difference so I took them out and stored them away.
I asked Chris Johnson of The Parts Connexion and ex of SF if that was true and he replied that ALL are important. I did get my box down, and no old tubes in it, just 6 empty Ei boxes. I have no idea what I did with them! I'm sure they are somewhere. So for now, until I decide where I'm going with a new amp I'll either stick with what I've got or get the EH's or cheap 6H23P's.
Chris is not wrong in that they are all important. But in my experience some are more so than others. At least in amps I am familiar with and some of the other Sonic Frontier amps I've read about. I know it may be a moot point as you may be changing amps regardless.
It's a bugger though not being able to find any schematics or other information particular to the SF Power One. And typically when you have something like a v1, v2, v3... v6, v7, v8 set up per channel, you would think v1 and v6 would be critical. But that's not even the case with something like the Power Two. From what I have read it is the middle pairing.
Those Mullard's would sure be nice to try again. Some of the Ei tubes are also very good. Though in either case some can be very bad depending on the factory they were made in.
Fortunately there are some pretty good new production options at reasonable prices for both your signal and power tubes.
I'll be at the same stage as you are someday when I deplete by NOS supply on hand. Maybe even consider solid state as you are likewise doing in your other threads.
Jonesy
"I know just enough to get into trouble. But not enough to get out of it."
Middle pairing sounds familiar. It's been probably 20 years since I bought those Mullards from that guy. And, funny enough, when my older daughter wanted to learn to play the flute we went to the local music store to get her set up, and there he was! Turns out he wasn't just some guy who worked at the audio store, he's one of the most respected sax and ww players in the area and a well regarded music teacher.
I have to say that when I had to replace the GE 6550's, I really didn't notice much difference with the new production Tung Sols that I put in. Of course I no longer had anything to compare them to. I had the same experience with my 6sn7 based pre. I had NOS RCA's in there for a long time, but they went noisy so all I could afford were new production, and they sounded fine to me. Unfortunately there's also a pair of WE 417A's that this pre needs and those are now hard to find and lots of $$$. There are no new production replacements, so I'd either have to pony up $350/pr for WE's or try the other NOS ones available, which by most accounts are not nearly as good. Who knows if I'd be able to tell the difference though.
I'm going to give SS a try, I'm not really confident it'll give me what I like, but sometimes adjustments are required in life, so let the music play on.
I cannot tell from this thread where price sensitivity kicks in but you can get 6 tested and matched pairs of EH 6922 from Jim McShane for about $100 (plus shipping). I've never had anything less than peace of mind buying from Jim.
I have bought several tubes from Jim over the years, and have gotten wise counsel as well even when not in the market for tubes at that moment. His stock is limited to EH and Gold Lions. The matched GL's are comparable in price to the 6N23P-EV's recommended by Parts Connection. The EH's would probably suffice for me though. Still need to get my box down from the attic and see what's in it.
After two complete cycles of quads of nos Tungsram E88CC in my preamp (Anthem Pre2L)I retubed with GL's from Jim two years ago. I have been very happy with them. Don't know if the EH would have sounded any different or not but I had no issue with spending a little more.
Nt
NT
Best to buy 6N23P-EV first in title. These are around $20 a NOS tube.
Russian 6N23P is best at $5 each. Even Electro Harmonic are $23 each.
Edits: 07/29/21
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No, not $50. $5 each on ebay in NOS. You can buy as many as you want. Six tubes required per your post is $30.
But thanks for the information.
Are you REALLY going to trust EBay to sell you a tube for 5$ and have it be both good and new?
I would look elsewhere.
Too much is never enough
The 6H23Π (6n23p) is so/so. The 6H23Π-EB (6n23p-ev) is very tough and has good, if not great, sonics. The tube New Sensor markets as the ElectroHarmonix (EH) 6922 is, in fact, 6H23Π-EB. Shop "EBone" for prices more favorable than New Sensor's.
For sonics better than Saratov, Russia, made tubes, whose cost is not excessive, try JJ's E88CC. Consistency has been an issue with JJ's product, but if you get correctly made stuff, the sound is close to West European NOS.
Eli D.
but the tubes they sell are fully tested and warrantied. You can certainly purchase the same type of tube direct from the source, but costs of testing, matching and replacement are paid by the end buyer- hence the attractive price.
I've found the consistency of the JJ E88CC to be very, very good in the past. The gold pin version anyway.
The problem with that tube for the last nearly two years has been availability. From what I was told by one their NA distributors, JJ decided to re-tool their E88CC line to also produce a frame-grid 12AX7. They managed to get the new frame-grid 12AX7 production up before the pandemic hit. They've been struggling to get the E88CCs going ever since. It's been three months or more since I looked into it, but matched pairs of the gold-pins were like hen's teeth then. When I last spoke the that distributor, he was expecting to receive some QC samples of the E88CC from JJ.
I hope JJ gets it together with that tube. I don't wanna pull my Teles out if I don't have to.
Eli, your post does not agree with the HEAD-FI review having the 6N23P in the top group of 17 tubes here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/6922-tube-review-17-top-6922-6n23p-e88cc-cca-7308-e188cc-tubes.761078/
Edits: 07/29/21
Opinions, everybody has them. I stand by what I said; the 6H23Π is mediocre and the 6H23Π-EB is pretty darned good.
Among Russian types, that specimens with the -EB suffix are superior is commonplace.
Eli D.
My $5 tubes I suggested are 6N23P-EV (did not add the EV) here:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/322539283243?hash=item4b18d6e32b:g:Fq0AAOSwvFhajqx6
They're the cheap 6N1P, and I can tell you they're very different from a 6922. OK to build with, not OK as subs in most cases.
--------------------------
Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
The way I read that ad is that those tubes are 6N1P-VI and the ~ is "similar to" a 6dj8 ecc88 6922 6n23p-ev. I don't know enough about tubes, but I don't think they are the same tubes.
"Except for higher heater current, the 6N1P is similar to 6DJ8, ECC88 or 6922 types and may substitute for these types in some high level audio applications."
Oh, no good. Sellers are tricky posting 6N22P when actually a 6N1P.
Edits: 07/30/21
Took a couple of looks before I noticed the ~ symbol. So, yeah tricky! Thanks for the help though. Going to dig the box out of the attic and see what the OEM's are. I don't notice anything bad with what's in the amp now, so I'll leave them be for now as long as I have some backups. 6 is a pain in the wallet!
I trust your analysis Eli.
BTW- Look for 6N23P with the silver, not grey shield. Silver shield are reported to sound a little better, but all 6N23P outperform most other 6922 manufactures.
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