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I thought I'd reprise my early post on this subject after evaluating my latest acquisition, the vintage Amperex.As before my system consists of:
FLAC/ALAC on my NAS ==> Windons 10 & Foobar2000 ==> Topping D90 DAC ==> Sonic Frontiers Line 1 preamp ==>
VTV Purifi power amp ==> Zaph Audio ZRT speakers.These components, including the preamp, are what some might call "analytic", so that's the way it is.
Personally I perceive tube characteristics as (a) layered or 'holographic' imaging (b) smooth versus bright, etched or harsh highs, (c) warm, full-body upper base/lower midrange. Conversely there is likely to be some loss of extension, detail and tightness of bass.
These are the six tubes I listened to in decreasing order of "tubeyness":
- Amperex 6922 'PQ' USA white label (vintage) -- most holographic; distinctly full-bodied
- JJ E88CC/6922 gold pin (new)
- Electro-Harmonix 6922 Gold (new)
- Genalex Gold Lion E88CC/6922 (new) -- fairly holographic & smooth but good detail & tight bass
- Reflector 6H23P-EB/6922 (10-15 y/o) -- only a touch of holography but excellent extension, detail and bass
- Siemens E88cc 'Rohre' (semi-vintage) -- detailed & extended but highs are intolerably bright.
For a few days after getting the Amperex they were my favorites. (I as lucky to get, used, for a very good price.) Unfortunately they became increasingly cloying on account of their full-body "fat", and soft bass. Now I'm in full rebound to the Reflektors, but that could change!
Dmitri Shostakovich
Edits: 06/21/21 06/21/21Follow Ups:
As someone years ago called the 6922, "the transistor that glows".
After farting around with 6922's I've come to like the Gold lions the best. They have an excellent all around sound and still maintain good balance. My least favorite was the EH. They had a very untube like sound.
Everything is a trade off, so choose the one that comes closest to your taste.
If you're getting loss of extension, then that has to do more with your system or circuit designs. Sure some tubes are better suited for a particular stereo. But generally it's not the actual tube causing the rolloff.
Good chance I'll roll the Reflectors for these in a few days and stay with them for awhile.
I owned a Line 1 about a decade ago. At the time my favorite tube was the Amperex 6922 'PQ' USA white label, apparently just like the ones I got a few days ago. (The originals were sold with my original Line 1.) I must say I am quite disappointed with these Amperex; not to say they necessarily sound different that my first ones, but I find them too "fat" to be tolerable according to my present taste.
It's odd in a way because everything in my system including to Line 1 is on the lean side.
Dmitri Shostakovich
A lot has changed in between your two sets of Amperex. Your entire system has changed / evolved, your hearing has changed, who knows the real condition of the tubes you are/were using. And don't neglect the fact that the caps in that preamp are now 10 years older then the preamp you're remembering.
The Line 1 I'll consider upgrading. Parts Connexion does an SE+ upgrade whose price I'll check.
Dmitri Shostakovich
"After farting around with 6922's I've come to like the Gold lions the best. They have an excellent all around sound and still maintain good balance. My least favorite was the EH. They had a very untube like sound."
Did you make any measurements during those experiments? Anode current, bias, etc.? There's no reason to believe reissues won't need tweaking brand by brand. That was true in the old days., where the different sounds of various manufacturers was often the result of not being dialed in for the circuitry they were installed in.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
No, I didn't use testing to come to that conclusion. It was purely subjective listening.
Like I referred to in my OP, depending on your system and circuit designs your results will vary.
I think the OPer, as well as myself, is not up to tweaking a circuit just to accommodate one tube. At this age, I'm trying to move away from situations like that.
I understand, but characterizing the tubes themselves in this way isn't valid. Installing them in a piece of equipment with different voltages and circuit values will likely yield different results. What you heard can only be said to be true relative to the specific gear they were in.
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Buy Chinese. Bury freedom.
Which is why I listed associated equipment in my OP.
All my up & downstream equipment is what many would call "analytic" in character. That's true of the Sonic Frontiers Line 1 as well -- at least for tube preamp.
Still, the relative characters of the tubes may be relevant though preference is likely to depend on personal inclinations as well as circuit context as point out.
Dmitri Shostakovich
My ARC preamp uses 6dj8/6992 in the phono section. I have tried a lot (all NOS see photo). The best I ever had was the Amperex pinch waist, that was an amazing tube and I never felt like taking it out. I played it till it was toast. Since then I have rolled many different Amperex, but always found them somewhat "fat" in the middle, like the OP. I couldn't live with it. I went though a Siemens phase, I like them a lot still, but they are a little to "thin" in the middle, great extension, not as holographic. Same with the Telefunken 6992.
Here's the thing. I have found that the humble 6DJ8 often sounds better than the voltage updated gold pin 6922 and 7308. The Telefunken 6DJ8 is a great tube in my ARC, less dry and more holographic than the more renowned gold pin 6922. The Siemens 6DJ8 is also a very good sounding tube. They seem to last longer too, the Tele 6DJ8 has been my main tube for years now, still sounds great and tests perfect.
None of them are perfect, they each have their strengths, that's why you need a stash to roll!
Edits: 06/30/21 06/30/21
Interesting the you found most Amperex to be "fat" in the midrange -- certainly what I found to be the case.A couple of days ago I dropped of my SF Line 1 at Parts ConneXion for a full 'SE+" upgrade. Previous to the I had abandoned the Reflectors and was using the JJ E88CC/6922 Gold Pins that seem to me to give relatively more smoothing and holography without the bloated midrange.
Dmitri Shostakovich
Edits: 07/01/21
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