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In Reply to: Life is funny sometimes...... posted by Vinnie on May 6, 2007 at 13:27:36:
Since there is some similarity between your posts I will try to answer all questions with one post.
From my experience bread boarding a whole bunch of amps with different output tubes and different drivers I know that each output tube has it's own unique sound. You can tweak it and change it a bit, but a 45 will still sound like a 45 and a 845 will still sound more like an 845 than a 45. What I am really saying is that I prefer the basic sound of the 300B to the basic sound of an 845, that's all. All the other things you say are true, but I would rather spend my time trying to improve the sound of an amp that has an output tube I like the sound of. So far for me it's been the 45, the 300B and the 71A. I have bread boarded at least 3 or 4 different 2A3 amps and I never did find one (SE of course) that I liked better than the 45 or 71A for sound.
I haven't tried the 211 yet, and I would like to if I can find a pair that won't put me in the poor house. I may save the two chasis from the 845 with most the parts attached until I can.
I am afraid I don't have a copy of the schem for the 845 I can post. I tried finding it in the archives but the link said it had a lock on it and I don't have the key. It is GroverG's design if any of you are familiar with it. I can tell you it has 10k output trannys and the tubes are 6n7 to el34 to 845. I used russkie teflon coupling caps and some russkie oilers as well. Bias was -145 vdc. B+ was right at 1k.
I guess the bottom line for me is I like the sound of the 300B. Doesn't mean I won't keep trying other amps though. Know anywhere to get a good price on 211's?
Thanks for all the help!
Vince
Follow Ups:
Hi Vinney,you are now a very mature contributor with loads of experiencial learning behind you. I really liked your summing up.
I have been browsing your 211 questions above.
I don't go in for the 6c45 or any other high transconductance single driver solutions.
You do need to explore the 211, but if you can manage with the lower power output of the 300b try not to follow the high voltage schematics.
As you say every valve has a predominant sonic which forces itself on the design. This is as true of the rest of the valves in the circuit as of the output valve. For my money experiment with low voltage low bias but don't get all hung up on having to use super low impedance driver or special tecniques. There is a magic sound from the 211 low power at the turning point into a2, when combined with superb sounding other valves sheds the thin midrange (compared to 300b) and light bass characteristic of the 211 found in the convensional designs which seem duty bound to produce maximum available power from whichever output valve the design is for.
You can obtain a much better sound from the 211 used by thinking outside the box than any 300b builder will ever achieve.
It's a close held secret that all the circuits which maximise power from a particular output valve can be bettered in sound at the listening level by building an amp that has no hope of maximising power. Build for that level of listening you require.
If you remember I never did like it. Have not tried all of the latest offerings but still can't find as good a result as comes sratght away easy with the nos 211.The gevt4c is a great bread and butter valve.
The oxide coated WE 211D is out of this world. I only have one sadly.
Two completely different sounds, but both worth every penny. Money well spent.
You can tune your ears to enjoy the vt4c and soon forget how much better the we211d sounds. You have to or you would go mad.
Of course if money were no object I would crave every oxide 211 I could lay my hands on.
the NOS 211s would have to much better than the VT4 because these don't sound near as good as the cheapest 845s IME.
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