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In Reply to: Why does everyone talk about Maggies? Are they really that great? posted by Wumper on November 04, 1999 at 16:58:52:
I'd like to add my perspective on Magnepan having been an owner of 3s and reviewed the 20s.The Magnepan story consists of three periods: pre-ribbon tweeter, ribbon tweeter and QR midrange (current). Why Magnepan speakers gained early acceptance and noteriety were that they offered audiophiles a piece of the electrostatic sound without the drawbacks of arcing and unreliability.
The earlier Maggies were somewhat rolled on top, a little hard but were really quick. A model like the Timpani IVa had bass that was extremely fast that revealed little details that the big slow woofers of the day just smeared. In fact, many bought the bass panels (despite their size) and combined them with other drivers (like the QRS/1D system) to produce some outstanding speaker combos.
Then the real breakthrough came with Maggies introduction of their ribbon tweeter (now in its third incarnation--and many still believe the initial despite it's somewhat limited power handling--was the best of the ribbons) in the MGIIIs. This ribbon is still arguably the best HF transducer ever made. Suddenly, HFs were opened up like people never heard in a speaker. This type of resolution was also problematic in that it now revealed faults in equipment that we never knew really existed--and Magnepan soon introduced a resistor to tame problematic high frequencies.
The new MGIIIs had exceptional highs and lows (to around 40 Hz) but the midrange was a little veiled compared to the extremes. (of course some like JGH objected to the venetian blind effect of the transducers being placed side by side.) Why I eventually settled on ML reQuests over MG3.5s was the midrange however. The bass on the two speakers were different, the ML moving more air and Maggies being faster and more resolving; the Maggies have of course the better top end by far; but what was the deciding factor was the midrange: here the ML's had the upper hand.
The main problem was that the MGIIIs required a lot of power to get going -say like 100 watts min and definitely were better sounding biamped (due to bypassing 40 mikes of caps in the xover). Some other complained that the coherency from top to bottom was slightly compromised--but compared to other speakers with the exception of full range estats (which have a transformer which causes other problems --I didn't feel it was a huge failing.
Then Magnepan developed the quasi ribbon driver (QR) for the mids and lows. I must say if you have the right room and amplification, the 20s are probably one of the best buys on the market for slightly under 10K. Having reviewed them, they really need to be biamped and you really need to have a big bass amp with a lot of current driving the bass panel--or else you can hear it slap. The 2nd version which has the outboard passive xover is the one to get for most people--otherwise you'll have to play with active xovers--and I'm not a big fan of active xovers. The 20s really give you the feeling of a real size orchestra--yet don't oversize small ensembles. They are more coherent than earlier Maggies--with all of their attributes.
Then we come to the 3.6s which are supposed to be a real step forward--with the QR midrange--and I'm waiting for the review pr to show up that Steve Rochlin is reviewing for the winter issue of UA. They do promise to be some exception sound, especially for the money. It will be very interesting to hear how the new mid driver integrates with the rest of the drivers and if overcomes the slightly lower midrange resolution of older models.
That said, I think another reason for the popularity of the Maggies is that they're like the Dynaco equipment of yore. The speakers are easily modifiable and the speaker can become even better. I know that I totally rebuilt my MGIIIs with new caps, wiring, chokes, bracing, binding posts, hard wiring the speakers, moving the entire xover outboard--and the sound of the speakers just improved by leaps and bounds. Some like George Cardas even went so far to replace the wire on the panels--and gaining an additional 3db of sensitivity in the process. They're a few Cardas modded Maggies circulating around on the West Coast and people swear by them.
Replacing the polyester caps on the tweeter with polyprope or styrene RELs revealed nuances and delicacy that other drivers only dreamed of. Playing the bass---improved not only the speed (and hang over) but revealed the smallest changes in the playing of upright basses on jazz recordings--that other drivers were just too slow to decipher. Then of course whenever you improve the low end--you'll find a greater sense of ambient space!!! The MGIIIs also used iron core chokes (sure they reduce the size but they don't sound good) and I replaced them with 12 ga. Solen air core chokes (expensive and heavey but worth it!)
Anyway, I hope this gives a little more insight into why the speakers have developed such a loyal following. The main problem with Maggies is their requirement to be placed at least 4 ft from back walls and their size. Not so long ago, big speakers were falling out of favor--but suddenly the demand has picked up and size seems to matter less ;-)
Myles B. Astor
Publisher
Ultimate Audio
I too hope you will expand on this topic and print a feature the history of magnepan speakers and hot-rodded maggies - fascinating stuff! Thank you for your insights, hope to see more.
Interesting, Myles. I remember coveting the Tympanis - Hell, I coveted the entire Audio Research/Tympani package. But 'twas not to be for lack of scratch. I settled for an SP-3A-1 and a pair of the original Acoustat X's - which wasn't bad settling ;-). Would like to put that system together again now with a really good sub like the REL.I think in some ways that system, even with it's bass deficiencies, was better than any other I've had (including a system with the ML Quest z's)save the current set-up with 45s, OTLs and horns - which BTW will do all things you describe the Maggies and 'stats doing with the added plus of deep, well-controlled bass and very wide-range dynamics.
You're lucky. I bought a pair of the original Audio Research Tympani I(d) about 25 years ago. And kept them until one of the mid/bass units went 2 years ago (they're in the attic, still). You go out to hifi shops, you listen to speakers, you say... "MMMMM.... Sounds pretty good, but I've got some tympanis at home. Are these new things really $5,000 better. Nahhhh." It almost killed my audiophilia.Now that they died, it's like waking up after a deeeeeep sleep.
Myles:Lovely piece of history and very much to the point and concise about what you know and think of Maggies. This is the sort of stuff I bet people would love to see in the printed press (and which is absent because of, I think, the formal, stylized, frame of mind that authors assume when they write for the printed medium). You should print the post in UA! What say others?
Ming
don't read AA. These are some of the very worthwhile posts that keep me here and probably others. Regardless of what the rest of the world thinks of Maggies Myles gives a clear, consise opinion that is backed up with experience and knowledge.
Me too. SP3 (then a, 1a, Van Alstine, et al.), D76, EC22, Ampzilla (bass panels) Tympani IIIa.It has been a long time but the sound really sticks in my memory as beeing the best I ever heard. Would love to compare with todays offerings - I'm sure that set-up had weaknesses, but I just remember really getting lost in the music. That seems harder to do these days despite improvements in the past 25 years which should have made this more obtainable.
What is it? Overly romantic memory of "first girl" due to inexperience? Technology advances haven't translated into more musical products?
Just seem to be smoking more and enjoying it less.
Regards,
Bill Zarycranski
When my tympanis went down, I bought a pair of biro L/1s. The reason was that at 10kg each I could ship them to europe free and Van Alstine rated them pretty high. At <$1500, I was thinking of using them till I could get the maggies fixed (surface shipping would take over 6 months RT and caust in the upper 3 figures). I listened to some JM Lab and Alons (local stuff) and was underwhelmed at the price/performance. Plus france has 20.6%TVA.I was pretty well amazed at how much better the little biros were.
is a function of age, I think. The older you get, and the sharper
your critical facilities become, the less able you are to just
lose yourself - in anything, I think, be it music, sex, a book,
or whatever. This, obviously, is good and bad. Mike.
I have been a fan of Magnepans for several years now, but knew little
about their history, etc. Now I know some it. Recently acquired a
pair of 3.5s (used) for what I consider a bargain price, and I must
say they are truly spectacular - not as good as 3.6s, which I have
auditioned at a dealer, but at only 1/3 the cost. I love 'em. Mike.
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