Audio Asylum Thread Printer

Get a view of an entire thread on one page

FAQ / News / Events

Speaker Asylum

Well, they actually do

104.35.189.164

Edp

In Reply to: RE: Full range drivers do not exist- posted by Ralph on July 23, 2024 at 12:39:00

But for most, they have limitations that restrict their acceptance and the genres of music they perform believable

You've been in this hobby/business long enough to know of the near religious nature of the full range following. Some of the most passionate, committed of the different audio religions but without the nasty clique attitudes of others.

And no doubt you've experienced a fully engineered and expertly implemented low excursion wide band driver that delivered a more than convincing presentation while experiencing a (mostly) crossover-less presentation. Rare, but real.

Like you , I too find their limitations to overshadow their strengths as midbanders, but heard more than a couple that proved the focused skill and passion of the driver creator can deliver highly refined audio.

Follow Ups:

RE: Well, they actually do - Presto 12:28:03 07/24/24 (1)
A full-range with a super-tweeter is just a 2-way with an excessively high crossover point. The 8-12k crossover point is a bug, not a feature. Making it really high doesn't make it less of a concern, it makes things worse. "Just a little tinkle on the top" isn't supported by the basic physics of it.
I used to put "stereo subs", one under each 2-way. 2-ways with stereo subs. Also known as three ways, with very low woof-to-mid crossover points. I did this because the theory was that a sub simply cannot be integrated seamlessly. Once I tried a properly crossed over sub (60hz not 80 or 100Hz and 4th order slopes not 2nd or 3rd) I discovered that most 2-way stand mounts can stand up to almost any floor stander. The trick is that with a floor-stander, the lowest frequencies are being reproduced by drivers in a cabinet placed in the room for imaging effects. This placement and sub placement are conflicting design goals, with the separate sub solving this dilemma eloquently.
Full-rangers with super tweeters and a sub is just a 2.1 way system and nothing more (or less).
If it sounds like it's just a semantics game once you have anything more than a single driver on each side, well, it basically is.
Cheers,
Presto

Edits: 07/24/24
- Units I refered to have only one driver - Edp 14:21:03 07/24/24 (0)
  Examples I was referencing were single driver units, no HF or Sub driver. Rare, usually very large/tall, usually with BLH or dual BLH or Transmission line.
  
  Different driver sizes, but 200 mm was usually max.
  
  Drivers were more akin to "grown like a bonsai " with minute features of holes folds, felt dot bedazzled whizzer cones that have an xmax of a fingernail thickness. Intense details usually mark a single driver guru.
  
  Couple in recent years have gone to larger format drivers with a good measure of success, but their flagship models are like you said with added HF unit
I've been enjoying truly full range - E-Stat 10:01:08 07/24/24 (3)
low excursion drivers for decades. They just tend to be very large-current flavor has 32 square feet of radiating area.

They play loudly enough for me but if you have the space, can build large arrays (like Ray Kimber did at RMAF) should you want more. :)
- ESLs are the exception of course :) nt - Ralph 13:40:30 07/29/24 (0)
  -
- With the added advantage of plainer response, reduced sidewall effect - Edp 14:38:12 07/24/24 (1)
  Big Sound with Ease
  
  Today we won't comment on the downsides, as each different approach has them. Dam-It !
  - They do require - E-Stat 06:58:00 07/25/24 (0)
    lots of space and power. :)
    
    Fortunately, Dr. West addressed the usual beaming challenge with flat facets placed across controlled angles of 22, 45 and 90 degrees. The 22 degree model is intended for large arrays like what Ray Kimber used.
'religious nature' - Ralph 08:58:48 07/24/24 (1)
You've been in this hobby/business long enough to know of the near religious nature of the full range following. Some of the most passionate, committed of the different audio religions but without the nasty clique attitudes of others.

You really hit the nail on the head! I've experienced this fervor quite closely so know exactly what you're talking about.

I have a friend who is a bit of nut in this regard and has been struggling to get the things to work for a good 25 years. He's tried nearly every 'full range' driver out there and so has spent a ridiculous amount of money on drivers that at this point are just sitting around. Crossovers are anathema to him and right there is the religious fervor.

I've heard the drivers sound excellent in his system but they fall right apart when you crank the volume. I've heard them sound great at shows too, but the exact same thing is at play there.
- Yes, there is often repeated sessions of head to wall banging - Edp 14:31:43 07/24/24 (0)
  Although hardly only religion in this hobby, it tends to have some of the most dogged members.
  
  But your observation f falling apart could be as easily said about the BBC LS3A clan, and that is nearly as fervent as the Single Driver followers.
  
  The most difficult time I've had with no crossover guys is trying to convince them " it's going to be ALOT less shouty if you put a contour filter on that traffic cone shaped frequency response" driver.

Post a Followup:

FAQ

Post a Message!

Forgot Password?

Moniker (Username):
Password (Optional):
	Remember my Moniker & Password (What's this?) Eat Me
E-Mail (Optional):
Subject:

Message:	(Posts are subject to Content Rules)

Optional Link URL:
Optional Link Title:
Optional Image URL:
Upload Image:
E-mail Replies:	Automagically notify you when someone responds.

To view your new posting or follow-up, click on the RELOAD or REFRESH button on your browser.

This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: