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In Reply to: RE: Intel 45nm technology vs AMD posted by audioAl on December 23, 2009 at 04:05:46
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Has NOTHING to do with 45nm or other process technology . . .
On-board audio circuits have improved by leaps and bounds in recent years and I've got more than one friend up and running happily with PC audio using Realtek audio chips. (I'm sure there are other good brands but it's the one I know.) From time to time, other list members have reported similar results.
So I'd hesitate to say that it necessarily has much to do with 45nm or "other" process technology. OTOH, what makes you confident that it has nothing to do with it?
Newer semiconductor technology with smaller feature sizes means less chip space and power consumption and faster operation. This can be used to add functions (more complex chips) or run at higher clock speeds, both of which can improve sound quality. By reducing the currents required on the power and ground wires and in the power supplies this can improve the overall noise environment. Perhaps the most important factor for mass market products is reduced cost, making it economical to provide better audio quality while retaining low cost.
Of course, a design that exploits the latest process technology can be botched, so the technology provides only an opportunity, not a guarantee.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Have you actually checked with "cics"?
I'm sorry, I forgot to consult with God on this one.
You are right, ignorance rules in some of these assertions.
The man likes what he hears & is wondering why.
Tell me, what "assertion" did the original poster make ?
Can you actually read ? Is English a 2nd or 3rd language for you ? The original poster asked a question, ASKED A QUESTION !
And you're calling him ignorant ? It would be kind to just say you're ignorant of the meaning of words. But you know better. I'm sick of your rudeness & intolerance. You need to get yourself some help. You're disgusting.
nt
You are right, ignorance rules in some of these assertions.
Here we go again. What assertions are you referring to?
AudioAl asked a question: on his new motherboard, why were the sonics so good without a Dac or soundcard.
He suggested an explanation and AbeCollins made, well, an assertion rejecting it. I tried to answer him, also questioning his suggestion but, I hope, not so arrogantly.
Do we really need a self-appointed Committee for Public Safety to convene every damn time someone asks a reasonable question?
I only asked about the 45nm cpu because the Gigabyte boards cics recommends are 45nm boards. Realtek has really advanced in the last few years, and I am impressed with the onboard sound. I did not mean to start an argument, it is Christmas. I build quiet HTPC's and this last one was for me. I wanted to try an Intel processor. e5300 is 2.6 GHz middle of the road, so to speak. The music clarity is what matters to me, my rig is Mid-Fi, see signature. Happy Holidays All!
Vista Ultimate 32bit/Intel e5300 45nm cpu/ECS G41T-M2 mainboard/ RocketFish 550w ps/4gigs OCZ 800 MHz ram/Line-In to Pioneer 819 Amp/ Infinity RS1001 Fronts and rears/ Cambridge SoundWorks Sub&Center
You are not at fault. Nothing wrong with questions.
I've got a Gigabyte GA-MA770T-UD3P with Realtek ALC888 in my office. I was impressed from the beginning when the Realtek software had an option to select output sample rate for the SPDIF output.
I did not mean to start an argument, it is Christmas.
Ah, but you did. Arguments are a year-round phenomenon wherever hobbyists gather.
Obviously, I'm aware of the reasoning but Tony's explanation of why 45nm CPUs might lead to better sound quality is typically succinct.
My concern was whether low-power devices would necessarily do so in your situation, given that you were using on-board audio which might not resolve what are bound to be fairly subtle differences. Maybe it would - but maybe it wouldn't.
Where I completely agree is that on-board audio has improved greatly. I see no reason why a limited-features motherboard with a good audio chipset shouldn't form the basis of a first-rate, low-cost PC-audio system.
That wasn't true a few years back - but it is now. Are such systems "giant-killers"? Of course not but "audiophile" circles have rather taken their eyes off the ball here, I think.
BTW, if you're so minded, you might want to experiment with a little added smoothing to the PSU lines, esp the P4. It costs buttons and can make a surprising difference - see link.
Best wishes to all for the holiday season.
(After that, as soon as we can decently dispense with mawkish seasonal tosh, let's all hasten back to vituperative sniping based on ill-digested readings of muddled posts and suspect assertions of intellectual superiority. Can't wait . . . )
Dave
"My concern was whether low-power devices would necessarily do so in your situation, given that you were using on-board audio which might not resolve what are bound to be fairly subtle differences. Maybe it would - but maybe it wouldn't."
And this is different from external DAC's just how?
I may be biased because the source I've listened to the most the last few years is a now six year old PC using it's on-board RealTek audio chip. It sounds good...
Merry Christmas and Happy New Years day. Since we are post-solstice, days are bound to get brighter for usins in the N. Hemisphere even if we aren't.
Rick
And this is different from external DAC's just how?
I was working on the hypothesis that an external DAC whose price was several times that of the PC that drives it would (OK, should) be more likely to reveal fine detail than the latter's on-board audio and thus be more sensitive to motherboard quality. (I wasn't certain I was right but a chap should avoid making ignorant assertions, should he not.)
A while back, asked by a friend to set up an audio PC system on a budget that would make a hermit blush, I tried using his six- or seven-year-old Athlon MoBo's on-board audio. Despite hours configuring this and tweaking that, it was a sonic disaster. My pal said he got better sound from his dad's crystal set (which I thought was going a bit far) and went happily back to his 1980s-vintage "music centre" (which I dare say he bought from the Brussels equivalent of Crazy Eddie). As I recall, his computer had an ADI SoundMax audio device.
Interesting if Realtek was way ahead even then. The key point, on which I'm sure we agree, is that on-board audio can be pretty good and there is no need for audiophiles to be snooty about it - as audioAl discovered.
Dave
I did discover, now I need a single malt scotch. Choices,choices.Cheers! and a happy new decade!
Vista Ultimate 32bit/Intel e5300 45nm cpu/ECS G41T-M2 mainboard/ RocketFish 550w ps/4gigs OCZ 800 MHz ram/Line-In to Pioneer 819 Amp/ Infinity RS1001 Fronts and rears/ Cambridge SoundWorks Sub&Center
The ...the Brussels equivalent of Crazy Eddie...phrase is quite a hoot but yet very descriptive and to the point.
Well stated and happy holidays Dave!!
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