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In Reply to: RE: Musiland Monitor 01 USD - late to the party, but... posted by Thorsten on December 17, 2009 at 10:35:40
I don't have the same issue that you have identified; the spdif output being decent and there is no furring as shown in your picture. What I have found is that the output frequency deviation is a constant 100 kHz.
It is my prectice to relock spdif outputs or use a dac with v good clock cleaning and regeneration capabilities.
I agree that the 1.0.3.2 software is solid. However, the 1.0.5 drivers has been hacked such that the digital levels depend on the PC and instaed of 100, shows 78 or 156! To my ears the sound is more mellow and worse.
The 1.0.7 driver does not work on any of my PCs at all (firmware not recognised).
When using the 1.0.3.2 driver, the best sound is obtained by backing off digital levels to about 96.
Follow Ups:
Hi,
> I don't have the same issue that you have identified; the spdif
> output being decent and there is no furring as shown in your picture.
Interesting, what 'scope do you use? What is the frequency limit?
Also note that I measured with a 1.5m SPDIF cable attached and terminated at the far end, not directly into a 75 Ohm terminator at the unit, as I am interesting in the practical performance, not theory...
Both the impedance mismatch and the excessive leakage inductance of the output transformer are shown up well when measuring like this (and yes, the far end looks even worse).
> It is my prectice to relock spdif outputs or use a dac with v
> good clock cleaning and regeneration capabilities.
That certainly helps.
> I agree that the 1.0.3.2 software is solid.
Yes. And I like the sample rate auto adjustment.
> However, the 1.0.5 drivers has been hacked such that the
> digital levels depend on the PC and instaed of 100, shows
> 78 or 156! To my ears the sound is more mellow and worse.
>
> The 1.0.7 driver does not work on any of my PCs at all
> (firmware not recognised).
Then don't use them... :-)
Ciao T
Analog Tetronix > 400 MHz scope, with 75R termination at the scope.
The stock transformer doesn't look bad in terms of waveshape and there is less ground bounce and ringing than the M2Tech HiFace. Trace brodening is marginally worse thyan the HiFace but better than many pci sound cards.
Which software driver are you using and have you tried KS on the WDM panel?
Hi,
> Analog Tetronix > 400 MHz scope, with 75R termination at the scope.
Hmm, here digital 150MHz HP, with 1:10 probe to minimise capacitive loading. And as said, a real cable attached.
> The stock transformer doesn't look bad in terms of waveshape and
> there is less ground bounce and ringing than the M2Tech HiFace.
> Trace brodening is marginally worse thyan the HiFace but better
> than many pci sound cards.
Okay, the results are not bad for PC audio, but by high-end HiFi standards the results are poor. After my mod's the musiland outputs match my high end designs and sound much bettet.
> Which software driver are you using
The one that came in the Box, 1.0.5
> and have you tried KS on the WDM panel?
My playback software (not CPlay) is strictly ASIO.
Ciao T
I have an HP 150MHz with FFT module. It is not really much good for looking at fast digital waveforms; there are more dots than I want to see! My scope observations do not involve using probes but through a high bandwidth 75R 1.5m cable terminated into 75R at the scope.
I don't believe that one can mod the Musiland to high end audio standards. For a start, the F sythesis does not output a tight sampling rate (100k out). The only way that it starts to approach high end sound is by relocking the output or by playing thru a dac with v low jitter clock cleaning/internal clock. I used a Universal Audio 2192 and a Buffalo dac for listening. An external power supply such as a Jung type regulator is also needed. The usb V bus must be cut as well.
Does the 1.0.5 driver on your system give 100% scaling on the asio or wdm boxes?
Hi,
> I have an HP 150MHz with FFT module. It is not really much
> good for looking at fast digital waveforms; there are more
> dots than I want to see!
Maybe, I find it very useful and nowadays very rarely get the Tek analog 'scope out.
> My scope observations do not involve using probes but through a high
> bandwidth 75R 1.5m cable terminated into 75R at the scope.
So you are looking at the end with the 'scope in 1:1 mode, while I am looking at the beginning with a probe that minimises capacitance. So rather different methodes. Also, mine was powered of the USB bus.
> I don't believe that one can mod the Musiland to high end audio
> standards. For a start, the F sythesis does not output a tight
> sampling rate (100k out).
Sorry, I do not follow? How can the sample rate be 100KHz out? I am getting the expected frequencies everywhere. Do you mean 100Hz?
Anyway, I was merely referring to the actual measured behaviour of the SPDIF output, not to the overall performance. What I have found however, is that jitter with the mods I did (01 USD) is low enough that my AP can't show it, which is not very, very low, but lower than many CD-Players/Transports and lower than any PC Audio device I had at hand.
> Does the 1.0.5 driver on your system give 100% scaling on the asio
> or wdm boxes?
Yes.
Ciao T
Sorry, I do not follow? How can the sample rate be 100KHz out? I am getting the expected frequencies everywhere. Do you mean 100Hz?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sorry, 0.1k not 100k. Still locks on my Big Ben and UA2192.
Hi,
> Sorry, 0.1k not 100k. Still locks on my Big Ben and UA2192.
Hmmm, need to test again, but I did notice this in the lab...
Is it 100Hz at 44.1KHz and scaling or 100Hz at any rate?
Ciao T
At all rates.
Your 10:1 probe; you are measuring something like 0.03V over 1.5m with no termination? The HP, from memory, is not that sensitive
Hi,
> Your 10:1 probe; you are measuring something like 0.03V
> over 1.5m with no termination?
Not quite.
> The HP, from memory, is not that sensitive
My one is 1mV/div.
And the second trace was measured the same way, so the 'scope and probe where not the limit.
Ciao T
I have just done a re-comparison of asio v ks, and ks even with 5 only buffers, sounds clearly better; more transparent and clearer with no aggression.
Try it.
By mistake, I plugged in a 317 power supply instead of the alw and this sounded both aggressive and not nice.
Re: 317 vs alw: is that before the local regulators or replacing the local regulators?
nt
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