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In Reply to: RE: Thanks posted by jaydacus on August 21, 2018 at 16:32:46
what that means, right?
I know what the auction says.
Apparently, you don't. :)
If a file is natively 24/96 or I up sample in Volumio I get sound. 24/192= silence..
You cannot play 96/24 (or higher) natively with that DAC. You're taking a low resolution file and having it masquerade otherwise.
Do you understand that your conclusions are based upon faulty assumptions?
I can assure you that when I play John William's 192/24 soundtrack master to The Last Jedi, I am getting beautiful music. :)
Follow Ups:
Um. I understand what I'm doing. Do you?
If I play a 24/96 file with resampling off, the Digione sends 24/96 to the DAC. I promise you that my DAC-AH at least accepts 24/96 because I'm getting sound. I can also promise you that the Digione is actually sending 24/96 to the DAC-AH because I have another DAC that gives me silence if I play anything above 24/48.
Now whether or not the DAC is actually outputting 24/96 is another matter entirely. It is full of 16 bit chips, so probably not.
It seems to me that the dac is probably capable of playing 24/96. It has a CS8414 digital input receiver which is capable of processing 24/96. The TDA1543 is capable of 4x oversampling. If operating in non-oversampling mode it can process up to 4x44.1kHz=176.4kHz sampling frequency. It is only capable of 16 bit dynamic range but it will accept 24 bit data. It just truncates and discards the lowest 8 bits of data. So if you heard the dac process 24/96 information, I believe you.
The loss of 8 bits of dynamic range is probably not critical or even noticeable in most systems. At 16 bits, the dynamic range is 96 dB and 24 bits is 144 dB. However, most recorded music probably doesn't even have a dynamic range of 96 dB. Also, ambient noise in the listening environment, the dynamic capabilities of the playback electronics and speakers, and even the maximum listening volume that a person can tolerate all make 16 bits a non-issue.
If operating in non-oversampling mode it can process up to 4x44.1kHz=176.4kHz
According to the TDA1543 datasheet, the chip handles up to 192 KHz.
Folk whose reports I trust and who use it tell me that 24-bit data offers a small but worthwhile improvement over 16-bit data. OTOH, many of us own so few recordings in 24-bit files that bit depth is not a serious limitation.
This thread and recent posts in other forums are tempting me (for curiosity's sake if nothing else) to dig out my old DDDAC, which used 48 TDA1543s. I'd never bothered to look into it but it seems that the 48KHz limit was set not by the DAC chips but by the USB> I2S board. Easy sorted.
D
My mistake about the maximum sampling frequency. I forgot about 4x48kHz=192kHz.
which used 48 TDA1543s.
With that number in use, it is easy to understand how word size could be multiplied!
With that number in use . . .
Sorry, my mistake. My DDDAC has a mere 18 TDA1543s. I must have been carried away by pix on the designer's web site of 48- and 64-way versions (chip porn?).
That said, a reclocking board design published by Ian-from-Canada on DIY-Audio reportedly allows the TDA1541A to run happily at 384/24 despite its datasheets saying it's limited to 96/16.
D
The TDA1541a can operate at 8x oversampling so Ian took advantage of that with his board by running the TDA1541a in simultaneous mode to allow 384kHz. His board accepts 24 bit depth but the TDA1541a is only capable of 16 bits so the last 8 bits are discarded by the TDA1541a.
His board accepts 24 bit depth but the TDA1541a is only capable of 16 bits so the last 8 bits are discarded by the TDA1541a.
Thanks for that - makes sense.
D
if you wish to decode 'Brownian noise' at 144.49 dB
.
That said, a reclocking board design published by Ian-from-Canada on DIY-Audio reportedly allows the TDA1541A to run happily at 384/24 despite its datasheets saying it's limited to 96/16.When used in multiples, one can extend word size of a given chip or improve S/N ratio. My Audio Research DAC8 uses four 24 bit mono DACs for the latter reason.
You could overclock the bejesus out of it, but I suspect you won't find commercial products that attempt such.
edit: Restructured post so there is no question!
Edits: 08/22/18
I owned a Cary CD 306/200 CDP many years ago. It was an awesome sounding CDP that used eight Burr Brown 1704 DAC chips (four for each channel).
- Two chips in parallel for the + side, and two chips in parallel for the - side of one balanced output channel.Replicate the above for the other channel for a total of 8 DAC chips.
Cary says they paralleled the DAC chips to further improve S/N ratio.
Edits: 08/22/18 08/22/18
with ARC using Texas Instruments PCM1792As .
Stereophile!
"Theta's general manager Jim White agreed, describing the new DAC as "absolutely, without question, the best." In a telephone interview July 24, White mentioned that Theta will soon ship a new digital processor, the DS Pro Generation VI, which will include four PCM 1704 DACs "for fully balanced operation." The Gen.VI will retail "in the $6000 range," White said;"
Link below:
Same as my Audio-GD Master 7.
Balanced from the output of the USB> I2S AMANERO board to the audio out balanced jacks.
Decent sound but REALLY large and heavy.
I didn't think the PCM1704 was a ladder DAC?? That Audio-GD Master 7 of yours is a beast! Is it's claim to fame outstanding sound from the older DAC chip?
Edits: 08/22/18
yes
especially now that the 1704 chip is hard to find
Alan
"The R-2R ladder utilizes dual balanced current segments to
ensure ideal tracking under all conditions. By interleaving
the individual bits of each DAC and employing precision
laser-trimming of resistors, a highly accurate match between
the two DACs is achieved."
Laser trimmed, no less.
Last Mauser price I saw a year or two ago was $75 each.
There is no longer stock so Audio-GD has gone back to DACs using real resistors.
I don't know why, but I often see erroneous posts about the PCM1704 no longer being available. It is just not true.
TI still sets up the line every few years and runs 200,000 or so. It is a pain for them as the fab equipment used is getting really long in the tooth. While they only label them as -U or -UJ, they pretty much all test at the level of the original -K.
And oh yeah, they charge a lot more for them than in decades past.
Richardson generally keeps the most stock--and I find them convenient--but there are other sources around the world.
https://www.rocelec.com/part/TEXTISPCM1704U-J
...a R2R ladder DAC after all per the link you provided. Thanks.
PCM1704 THEORY OF OPERATION
SIGN-MAGNITUDE ARCHITECTURE
Digital audio systems have traditionally used laser-trimmed,
current-source DACs in order to achieve sufficient accuracy.
However, even the best of these suffer from potential low-
level nonlinearity due to errors in the major carry bipolar
zero transition. Current systems have turned to oversampling
data converters, such as the popular delta-sigma architec-
tures, to correct the linearity problems. This is done, how-
ever, at the expense of signal-to-noise performance, and the
noise shaping techniques utilized by these converters creates
a considerable amount of out-of-band noise. If the outputs
are not properly filtered, dynamic performance of the overall
system will be adversely effected.
The PCM1704 employs an innovative architecture which
combines the advantages of traditional DACs (e.g., excellent
full-scale performance, high signal-to-noise ratio, and ease
of use) with superior low-level performance. This architec-
ture is referred to as sign-magnitude. Two DACs are com-
bined in a complementary arrangement to produce an ex-
tremely linear output. The two DACs share a common
reference, and a common R-2R ladder for bit current sources.
The R-2R ladder utilizes dual balanced current segments to
ensure ideal tracking under all conditions. By interleaving
the individual bits of each DAC and employing precision
laser-trimming of resistors, a highly accurate match between
the two DACs is achieve
I promise you that my DAC-AH at least accepts 24/96 because I'm getting sound.
exactly how you're playing the music.
Now whether or not the DAC is actually outputting 24/96 is another matter entirely...It is full of 16 bit chips, so probably not.
Maybe now you're beginning to understand!
Kindly cite a music file you're playing and how and its size in bytes.
"Death Cab For Cutie-Summer Years"-Downloaded from HD Tracks
File type= FLAC 24/96
File size 102MB
Play time 4:28
Please present another scenario that would explain these results that is not the DAC-AH accepting up to 24/96....
DAC#1-Technics SH-AC500D
16/44 file=Sound
24/48 re sampling in Volumio(I have no 24/48 files)=sound
24/96 file=silence
DAC#2 Peachtree DAC-iT
16/44 file=sound
24/96 file=sound
24/192 file=sound
DAC#3 DAC-AH
16/44 file=sound
24/96 file=sound
24/192 file=silence
The 24/192 file will play on the DAC-AH if I set the resampling to 24/96 or below.
I would highly suspect that the person claiming to be able to play a 24/192 file on their DAC-AH is using a Windows machine which by default assumes every sound device is 16/44 and down samples accordingly.
.....or maybe there is a version of the DAC-AH with a receiver chip that will accept 24/192.
Don't know
I am using a MacPro
Also the dacAH is brand new
I am still stunned how much I like it
Maybe because I am so used to the sound of my Master 7
and this is simply different.
Alan
I would highly suspect that the person claiming to be able to play a 24/192 file on their DAC-AH is using a Windows machine which by default assumes every sound device is 16/44 and down samples accordingly.
There is a difference between native playback and all manner of down/up/re-sampling techniques which are not equivalent.
I suspect that you could successfully play 352/24 stuff found here when using their built in player. :)
Hey E-Stat. I played the first track from the 2L site at 352/24 through the DacAH and it played just fine. What is the explanation for this?
Alan
this post where I previously answered the question and offered my experience playing a 352/24 selection. :)
BTW, the DAC in my PC is an old M-Audio 2496. Wanna take a wild guess at it's limit?
"The Audiophile 2496 gives you stereo (or dual mono) analog inputs and outputs, plus coaxial S/PDIF digital inputs and outputs for a total of 4 ins/ 4 outs of high quality audio I/O. All audio channels support 24-bit data width and any sampling rate from 8kHz to 96kHz ".
Clearly , the software player is down converting the signal sent to the DAC.
Just for grins, I downloaded one of the 321 MB 352/24 tracks and was curious to see if it would play through my Music Hall DAC 25.3 which tops out at 192/24. Surprisingly, it clicked and played. But I seriously doubt that it is truly playing native resolution.
The reason I have a fairly sizable high resolution library is that I want to be able to enjoy what it provides - not through truncation and down sampling.
I tried to download some of these files but realized I don't have a player that will play them
Alan
I want a DAC that can natively play all the bits from the existing content I have in various resolutions.
That unit should work great with Redbook and Tidal.
Sheesh!
You're just throwing gas on his fire.
I have no doubt that your PC, if that is what you are using, can render any sampling rate and bit depth imaginable.
I promise you that if your playback device actually sends 352/24(spdif only goes up to 24/192 anyway) , or anything above 24/96 for that matter to the DAC-AH, you will not hear anything.
To properly deconstruct what is actually happening we need more details about your digital transport. Hardware, software, version of AOL(just kidding) etc.
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