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Listening to Vladimir Horowitz in Moscow on Tidal, which is kind of a special album for me because I was in Moscow when he played and watched it live on TV with some refusenik types. Sounds great, as did the one album from my local library I've played so far.
But I am so inept. I read, and likely over-read, all the information Roon provides on their site. Well, not all, but up to the parts about post-launch things, which I'll start perusing soon. And still, I just about pulled my hair out at each step. Harebrained. In my defense there were strange things like Roon not seeing the external HDD that holds my music for the mini (renaming it without punctuation seemed to be the answer). And then I kept getting a "Can't find Core" message, which went away when I deleted full Roon and replaced it with Roon Server since the Mac mini is headless. I just did that on a whim, but it worked. And then there's the strange way that Roon Server opens. That is nothing seems to happen when you click on the icon, and I had to learn to look for the little symbol next to the wifi symbol. And then it quit on me unexpectedly when I first tried to play something on Tidal, which is the only lingering concern I have.
But, yeah, I did it! And I avoided harassing this forum throughout my near total mental collapse. LOL. "Just shut up Josh! Nitwit!"
Anyway, I just hope Roon doesn't close unexpectedly again. I like the sound a lot as is, which is just HDD > Mini > USB to Bel Canto DAC2.5 > preamp, etc. If I decide to go forward with the paid subscriptions, I'll likely get a couple of micoRendus as endpoints, and maybe USB to S/PDIF converters. The Bel Canto has limited USB capability and is not asynchronous. And it's on loan from our bedroom system because the Oppo is very unstable as a USB DACt. Further down the line I might get a Sonictransporter to replace the mini. I think building a NUK is not something I would survive.
Or maybe I'll just go back to iTunes/Pure Music if it doesn't work consistently.
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Follow Ups:
"And then I kept getting a "Can't find Core" message, which went away when I deleted full Roon and replaced it with Roon Server since the Mac mini is headless."That shouldn't have made a difference. I run the full Roon with LCD display on Mac Mini > USB > DAC > Office System,
AND I have multiple Roon network streamers (clients) around the house. I run Roon Remote on the iPad and control playback on the Mini > USB DAC, or on the various network streamers.
Roon clients will sometimes not find the Core right away. You may have to wait a few seconds.
In any case, sounds like you're having fun. Enjoy!
P.S. I run "headless" by leaving the LCD monitor OFF. However, it does come in handy now and then.
Edits: 07/28/18 07/29/18
Yes, I am having fun now, knock on wood.
I think what confused Roon is I actually initially downloaded Roon Server only onto the mini, but then I deleted it because it didn't seem to be working. So when I then downloaded the full Roon, it likely thought since I'd already downloaded the Server package I wasn't now downloading it as a Core but rather for the Roon Remote feature?
Anyway, it's working now with the mini as the core, and I have Roon on my MBP as a Remote as well as the Remote app on my iPad. If I decide to continue with the subscriptions, I'll also download the Remote onto my phone and my wife's tablet and phone.
Eventually I want to stream to our bedroom system too. I assume I'll have to download Roon Bridge onto the Core mini for that?
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Roon Bridge is only needed on the network streamers (or endpoints). It's not needed on the main Server or Core. You can have as many Roon Bridge or Roon Ready devices throughout your home as you want.
So, if if I'm running my core directly into a DAC by USB, I don't need Roon Bridge, but if I use a separate renderer as an endpoint, then the renderer needs Roon Bridge on it. Like a microRendu or Pi, etc.
I assume Roon Ready endpoint/DACs, like the Mytech Brooklyn or Moon 280D with the Mind module already have Roon Bridge preinstalled?
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Yes, and Yes.I initially found Roon's component naming scheme to be a little confusing.
"So, if if I'm running my core directly into a DAC by USB, I don't need Roon Bridge, but if I use a separate renderer as an endpoint, then the renderer needs Roon Bridge on it. Like a microRendu or Pi, etc."
Correct. If you're running Roon directly on your computer and out to the USB DAC, and you can see and control your music library on said computer with a local keyboard and mouse, I just call that "full blown Roon". The whole enchilada. It also has a Core. I think Roon calls this Roon Server or just Roon. If you cannot see your music library and control it locally, you may just have Roon Core installed.
"I assume Roon Ready endpoint/DACs, like the Mytech Brooklyn or Moon 280D with the Mind module already have Roon Bridge preinstalled?"
Yes. They actually have a form of Roon Bridge already installed, tested, and certified by Roon.
My setup consists of:
- Mac Mini running the full blown Roon. It outputs music thru a USB DAC attached directly to the Mac Mini and I can play music from it into my office audio system. I can walk across the room and control the Mini and Roon with a keyboard, mouse, and computer screen. OR, I can control it remotely from my iPad running the Roon Remote app.
- Additionally, I have a microRendu streamer in the basement system. The microRendu is a Roon Ready device. I have two DIY Raspberry Pi streamers with Roon Bridge on them, and I have 3 AppleTV devices in our home. Roon can play music to all of these devices. I just select one as an Audio Zone using the Roon Remote app on the iPad.
There is a keyboard, mouse, and monitor available to me but they are out of view. They keyboard and mouse are wireless so they are not physically wired to the Mac Mini. The monitor out of view. It's a Panasonic TV mounted high on the wall to left side of the Mac Mini. I can see what's going on on the Mac Mini or switch the TV input to watch CNN or whatever. And of course there's the portable iPad with Roon Remote on it.
Edits: 07/31/18 07/31/18
Between you and Cut-Throat, I am starting to understand the various architectures and how they work.
I control my mini through my MBP (Screen Sharing) anyway, so I downloaded Roon Server without the control feature on the mini. I have the control app on my MBP, iPad and iPhone. It's been working great.
Once my ethernet is all connected (this week I hope; otherwise next week), I will move my Mac mini to another location because my audio rack is too cluttered and also so I can connect some kind of RAID system that'll need more room and might be a bit noisy. At that point, I will go with separate endpoints - one to the main living room system and one to the bedroom system.
I'm going to pull the plug on the Allo Digione player today with the S/PDIF board pre-installed. I will then try it with my Bel Canto DAC in the bedroom, which has limited USB anyway, and with my Oppo's coax input as a DAC in the living room. Will post some questions in a new topic in a moment.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Get a Raspberry Pi - More fun than a Barrel of Monkeys!
Cut-Throat
I end up hanging myself. I could barely get Roon to work and then Tidal to integrate. Groan.
My buddy has a Pi and loves it. It sounded really good to me in his system. But he's very knowledgeable about computers and has kind of a golden touch. I'm a disaster!
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
This stuff is fairly easy and you learn by doing.... You can get plenty of help on this forum.... I have actually walked a guy on this forum through (By Phone) Installing a NAS system, running LMS on the NAS and getting his Raspberry Pi running.... That was months ago and he hasn't had a problem since.
Cut-Throat
We'll see where I go from here. Not sure yet. I need a new DAC anyway, and might spring for a Moon 280D with the Mind module. For the Core, I'm thinking of a sonicTransport, which is more than a Pi of course! We'll see. Thanks!
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
I have the 280d running for the last 2 years or so. Was frustrated that SimAudio never really described how they would make a move to Roon compatibility but I loved the 280d. So rather than buy another board (Mind 2), I purchased an Intel Nuc i7 and run the 280d off of it via USB, plus now I have the Core functionality with Roon Rock serving the rest of the house, too.
Before you drop the 'Big Bucks', Get a Digione Player and you'll have it running fine in a few days..... I'll bet the urge to spend more passes quickly and you'll have more of an emotional/educational attachment with the player as well. Something money can't buy.Cut-Throat
Edits: 07/29/18
So it would work as a Roon Core, or as an endpoint? It looks like it would be a great endpoint, especially for my bedroom Bel Canto DAC which has limited USB. The Digione is a niffy looking microcomputer for sure and the price is right!
As an aside, In my main system right now I have an Oppo 105D, but Roon isn't seeing the USB input, hence the Bel Canto's temporary duty. The Oppo has been finicky that way with iTunes and Pure Music too, so I don't want to rely on it as my two channel DAC anymore. Given that I need a new DAC, I figured I'd get a networked one like the 280D and obviate the need for an external renderer.
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"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
I have minimal experience with Roon.
Cut-Throat
My friend uses his Pi with JRiver into an NAD DAC into a Cronus Magnum II integrated, and it's a sweet sounding system. I think his music is on a NAS, but it might be on a USB HDD. Can't remember.
Looking at Abe's post below with the picture of his Pi, I think he's using it as a renderer. That is, I think his Mac is the Roon Core and the Pi is connected by ethernet to convert to the USB output of the Pi into his PS Audio DAC. That's what he said he was using the microRendu for, IIRC, so I'm guessing he's doing this now instead or for fun to compare.
But I'm still trying to figure out all of the architecture of how these various approaches work.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
I'm not exactly certain what the terms 'core' and 'renderer' are.
I am very familiar with LMS, where you have a PC, NAS or a Pi running LMS which I am guessing is the 'Core'.... And then you can have multiple Players all being served by the PC, NAS, Pi that is actually running LMS. And these players may be the 'renderers'??? At any rate, these Players can all be plugged into DACs, or use a Pi 'Top Hat' Dac, or just the analog output (Which I do in my Garage and Shop Systems).
You'll have this all figured out in a couple days.
Cut-Throat
Sounds similar to what you're describing, but not all Roon devices can do everything.
Roon only permits one computer be designated as the Core for the license you get. The Core acts as the server that can run on a network to various endpoints, or directly into a DAC. The Core can also act as a player and controller, but other devices are generally either endpoints or remote controls. In my case I have my Mac mini as my Core and my player. I opted not to include the control feature because I'm using it headless. I have remote control apps on my MBP, iPhone and iPad. As of now I don't have a separate endpoint, because my mini is connected directly to the DAC by USB. But my ethernet ports will all be connected soon, which will allow me to put the Mini (or purpose built computer) in another location and stream to multiple player endpoints, like Pis or microRendus, or directly to networked DACs that have Roon Bridge installed. I'll have only two zones, but you can have as many endpoints and remotes as you want.
It's actually not all that complicated, but it took me awhile to read through the online manual and get it to work with my library, and then with Tidal. Once up and running, though, it's really fun. At least it has been so far. They give you a 14 day free trial, which I'm using, together with Tidal's 30 day free trial. So no cash outlay yet.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
So, yes similar to LMS.... The Rpi would just be a player connected to the Roon 'Core'.... I actually installed Roon on my system a couple years ago on the trial basis and had about 4 Rpi's connected... I was not that 'into' metadata and preferred the available plugin software that LMS has.
Cut-Throat
You can run HQPlayer with Roon in place of Roon's own player. But otherwise it does seem like a closed environment.
I like having the metadata. It's easy enough to ignore.
What's surprising to me as I play around more is how much stuff is missing from Tidal compared to Spotify. I had no idea the library was so much smaller in areas I like.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Yes, I noticed the same thing with Spotify vs. Tidal. I have both, and Tidal has gotten a lot better over the last couple years, but I still find Spotify to have a lot better catalog.
Cut-Throat
How much do you know about Qobuz?
I'm excited to learn it's launching in the U.S. in the fall. The availability of some true high resolution content is exciting, as opposed to MQA, IMHO, though I generally think 16/44.1 can sound just amazing if done right.
I've heard Qobuz is better than Spotify and Tidal for jazz enthusiasts, which I am. Also for classical enthusiasts, which is nice though I'm not very learned in the area. But I've also heard its library is even smaller and that it's hemorrhaging money. Also, no way of knowing if/when Roon and Qobuz might work together, which is one reason I'm only going to do a year of Roon for now (assuming, that is, nothing happens in the next 13 days to make me want to end before expiration of the free trial).
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
Both are cheap, at least compared to Cable TV. =:-0
I keep both as there are some classical titles available only on one or the other of the services.
If I had to chose only one, for classical and Hi Rez I would take QOBUZ.
QOBUZ has a 'Pay-a-Year-in-Advance' Hi Rez service call Sublime+ but not all only some albums are hi rez.
Worth it to me but not everyone and the Hi Rez albums tend to be similar to MQA on TIDAL.
For Classical, and that's about it for me, QOBUZ has the better catalog and better search functions.
One caution, I don't know if either the Pi or uRendu have a QOBUZ player that supports Hi Rez streaming.
Maybe someone here does?
.
___
"If you are the owner of a new stereophonic system, this record will play with even more brilliant true-to-life fidelity. In short, you can purchase this record with no fear of its becoming obsolete in the future."
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Cut-Throat
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Cut-Throat
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