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175.45.6.61
I reported my problem connecting my computer with the USB of my Esoteric K-03 a few days back (see link). Based on feedback from Esoteric, I put the KS support dll and Wasapi dll into foobar. Now, I am able to output up to 96kHz data to the Esoteric when it is in USB-NOR mode (with Foobar output chosen as Wasapi Esoteric SPDIF. BTW, KS mode does not work for 88.2 files but Wasapi does.However, switching the DAC into HS1 or HS2 mode (Esoteric's 192 supported async mode), the computer will go through the routine of finding drivers as usual (I have already installed the software from Esoteric's website), but would end up saying "device disconnected" towards the end of the drill. I have also tried removing and reinstalling the software and that did not work either (No other software has been started during the whole process).
At this point, I have 2 questions:
1) With the setup in Wasapi Esoteric SPDIF, am I being in async mode already?
2) What could be the problem with the Esoteric being seen as disconnected as the installation process was going along.Please kindly let me know if there are other things I should try.
Many thanks.
Edits: 02/14/12Follow Ups:
Eduaradoo,
Look don't expect this ever to work. Get a real computer and then let's talk about setting it up.
Tablets don't have real operating systems, nor will they support audio devices like this at high speeds.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Well, although it is a tablet, it is actually an AMD brazos based machine (i.e. not a Tegra or Cortex tablet running Android or iOS) that runs Win7 64 bit, with a 64GB SSD and 4GB ram. It is basically an equivalent to a highish spec netbook (see link). It runs everything I normally do (full MS Office, media player, etc.) and works with all the Windows peripherals I normally use (printer, keyboard, etc.), so I was thinking it should work with HS.Any thoughts?
Edits: 02/16/12
The real problem is probably 2-fold:
1) The tablet has very cheap USB implementation that maybe will not support low-latency or high bandwidth.
2) The USB implementation on your DAC is from a company that is a newcomer in this field. With their first attempt at a USB interface, dont expect miracles.
There are a lot of newcomers trying to check that USB checkbox. Most dont understand what it takes to get performance and reliability.
You could have gone with a company that has a LOT of experience with USB interfaces, maybe 3 or 4 generations. Less risky IMO.
Steve N.
the Sometimes Universal Serial Bus again.
Note the reservations on the Ayre site which is raely admitted openly here, and Gordons's post about the 2012 Mac Mini USB ports elsewhere.. Apparently No 2 from the left is the Universal Serial Bus that works!
Guys,
These tablets are... well not really low quality but they apt for longer battery life over power. This makes for all the interfaces a little low on the quality side.
There was some beef about this same unit on the Pro Audio forums for not working with several of the AD/DA converters on the market.
Really I would try a real computer before you start blaming someone.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
OK, maybe it ain't gonna work. It's just that so many people seem to have set up CAS with a netbook that I would think this "netbook" was going to work, particularly since performance-wise, it seems to be quite a bit better than good many netbooks I've tried.
O well, now I should think about getting another cheap computer to set-up or go simple and get a SB Touch instead.
Thanks anyway.
This is why 'universal serial bus' devices for audio can be a con as it means that there is no universality. I pointed this out 2-3 years ago, to a chorus of criticism from a few usb audio makers.
I wouldn't buy a 'cheap' computer to try. I would buy a simple but 'good' one for audio. The best approach is to invest some time into making your own.
But even then, there is such a variability in sound quality from different 'good' audio computers (depending on hardware and software) that you'd be taking a chance.
Run as little 'fancy' software as you can.
Gordon's mentioning of power saving being the objective of these little machines inspired me to check out the power profiles. after defeating auto turn-off of USB, it connected!!!
However , it now faces a similar problem as my other machine... 100% CPU usage and stuttering. The situation is sometimes better, somtimes worse. Apparently, Microsoft is supposedly aware of this problem with usb audio, and there is hotfix kb981214 for that. However, also like my other machine, it would not install, saying that it is not applicable.
If you are not all too annoyed by this newby, can you guys give me some pointers as to how this can be fixed?
I posted about usb issues in audio from 2-3 years ago, to a chorus of ridicule from guys like Gordon, who nows says that there is only one proper usb port on the 2012 Mac. (Computer Audiophile).
Seriously, try to find out what other usb related processess are running and get rid of them. Also disable as many non essential services as possible and run latency tests each time. See if there are any audio/video/graphics programs running that have outdated or improper drivers. I don't know if Fidelizer works on 64 bit systems but this is a good program (exe) for getting rid of some services. You may yet cure the problem this way but it is bloody frustrating.
But to begin with, why not connect first first via a self powered usb bridge?
can you guys give me some pointers as to how this can be fixed?
Don't give up just yet. Similar problems have been cured more than once by disabling all power-saving states in both the BIOS and the OS - worth a try, it doesn't take a moment.
(If you so much as mention USB on an audio forum, naysayers tend to gravitate to your post from miles around telling you to abandon your family, sell your house, flee the country . . . )
HTH
D
"(If you so much as mention USB on an audio forum, naysayers tend to gravitate to your post from miles around telling you to abandon your family, sell your house, flee the country . . . )"
Perhaps the Intel USB commercial will really stir up the natives. :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
The face of God!
I don't know why they want format domination all the time.
The one constant in the Universe is.....Change.
They may own USB but who is to say USB will always be used in computers?
People like the idea of no wires, Bluetooth et.al is a means for this to happen. Its only a matter of time before computers come with internal Bluetooth and away we go to wireless mice, keyboards etc without the need for USB.
Already Printers and cameras for example can send receive via WiFi or Bluetooth, its a trend that is going to catch on imo.
Oh and then there will be those who have USB "only" Dacs...:-)
One thing nature has taught us, the inability to adapt = death. Adaptation is impossible with only one input. And I have yet to see a SPDIF to USB converter.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
the idea of change in IT is more often linked to money than improvement.
Change? I don't see an IQQ for audio, which is often stacked with six other things. Yet keyboard, mouse and serial ports have them reserved.
Audio is not even on the list
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I don't think USB is going to vanish any time soon. You might see USB 3 and Thunderbolt ports, but keep this fact in mind:
Millions of iPads have been sold with their sole computer interface being USB.
Probably won't happen over night, and even if it does it won't affect you because you are pretty much set.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Why should tablets not have real OS? Apparently his one is running regular windows, when looking at the software stack he uses.
Yup, I think the tablet is the issue perhaps due to the hardware.
Edits: 02/16/12
Instead of using a Round peg for a Round hole, we insist on spending countless hours and tweaks/work-arounds and band-aids to make that Square peg fit in the Round hole.
Not to worry, some enterprising person will develop a band-aid to make it work. And of course people will buy it, along with anything else in the name of better sound. How many gadgets and gizmo's does it take to make an Audiophile happy?
And after all the gadgets and gizmos are in place, all the upsampling done, the dithering and VST plugins working at maximum. The Audiophile sticks out his chest in satisfaction and proudly proclaims he is a Purist because his preamp does not have Bass and Treble controls...or better still he is going "directly" to the amp from the Dac.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Some major company like Sony, Philips, et.al spend the time and money to make it so.
They gave us SPDIF and its going to take the like of some entity like them to make USB work for digital audio in every case with 100% robustness. Not some DIY guy making Dacs in his basement and messing around hacking at code.
What Computer audio needs is an Enema and a fresh start with a major player at the helm. Get rid of all the band-aids, hacks and tweaks.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"Get rid of all the band-aids, hacks and tweaks."
This from an individual who changed every component in his DAC... Talk about OCD hypocrisy !!! LOL
> What Computer audio needs is an Enema and a fresh start with a major
> player at the helm.Good idea! An enema might make you feel better about computer audio and USB. Your head might be in the way though. (g)
Bill
Edits: 02/18/12
Looking for better sound???
You went out of your way to post this?
You have issues...
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
> Wow such a mean spirited post
You earned such a take-down.
You have been posting a stream of angry, negative posts. Those posts don't contain compelling loigic, just sweeping assertions. Whenever anyone expresses a different point of view based on their experience, you attack them.
Here are some samples from your posts:
"By our genius friends, ...
He obviously skipped 3rd grade, perhaps he was just too smart for school."
when Tony replied you said
"All this is saying [while trying to sound super intelligent] is do the same thing that I outlined as a basic experiment but change the independent variable to all possible variations.
...
What a vainglorious Gluteus Maximus."
and more examples
"Once you start to include BS in your argument its pointless."
"Who died and left you the Crown?"
"As to your other rhetoric...you know where you can shove it."
"It obvious you have no real experience with latency accept Wiki and arm chair logic. "
> You have issues...
I do have an issue with your out-of-control, abusive rants.
Bill
Protecting Tony and his minion.Thats so special.
At least I know your'e interested in what I have to say....I'm flattered.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/19/12
FWIW, I agree 100% with your signature line. How could I believe otherwise and be the webmaster for a site that sells meditation music? :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
.
I followed your link and you use non audio products for audio including USB.
What is the point of your rants if you use the stuff you rant about?
.
A person has to be really clueless if they are using a computer for audio and can't realize it. A PC is a PC is a PC. What you run on it is your choice. If you do 3D rendering on your audio PC don't expect great audio. A one box player is still a PC inside. The boon to playback is the processing and the error correction. This is one factor that I feel is so important over a standalone CD player. That is why we are here. SMH...
I am doing some experiments with USB converters. My latest the the Musical Fidelity V-Link.
I plan to change some internal caps and retro-fit it to use an "external" clock!
Stay Tuned!!
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I actually need to update this to include my Modded Havana Dac and the Audio Research Preamp. Either way....no USB products/converters in the audio system.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/17/12
.
linux servers are audio components?
looks to me like you have inserted a square peg in a round hole.
.
No web surfing abilities, not even a GUI...its a single purpose machine.Why dont you try reading.....
Mini iTX - Music Server features
1) Fanless 25watt PiCo power supply.
2) Solid State hard drive.
3) cMP2 bios optimizations to reduce cpu and ram power [EMI] as well as decrease ram latency.
4) Low resource distro of Linux with the Real-Time Kernel installed.
5) Full RT-Kernel optimizations done following "IBM's" and "Real-Time Kernel Wiki's" instructions to reduce "operating system" latency and jitter.
6) Full ALSA optimizations following the AlsaProject Low Latency Wiki instructions to reduce "audio thread" latencies and jitter.
7) Music Player Daemon running real-time with CPU affinity set to allow Music Player Daemon to use a single cpu core all to itself.
8) Alsa with USB 2.0 support to allow full 24bit playback.
9) Kill all processes that are not needed for either OS or Audio.10) One minute after boot-up X-server [desktop graphical user interface] is turned off to further reduce cpu load.
11) Headless - No peripherals [mice, keyboard, monitor] plugged in, only 2 usb ports active in bios.
12) Squeezeserver installed for Squeezebox Touch.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/17/12
one computer like aspect, the switching power supply.
=======
Full ALSA optimizations following the AlsaProject Low Latency Wiki instructions to reduce "audio thread" latencies and jitter.
=======
Did you notice there is no single instance of the word "jitter" on that wiki page?
.
So it takes a fraction of a second for the signal to get from wherever it is stored to the DAC. If it all follows the same path and has the same latency it doesn't matter at all for audio playback. For recording and mixing yes, in this application no.
.
This remarks shows that you have not investigated or heard the effects of increasing/decreasing latencies (and buffers).
.
Latency is the amount of time a signal is delayed as it moves through the system.
It doesn't matter if that is a millisecond or a minute as long as all bits are delayed equally. If the stream of bits coming out the other end is otherwise identical except for the fact that it has been delayed then it can't possibly sound different. Think about that. For your position to be true two identical streams of data would have to sound different.... impossible.
If playing around with buffers changes the sound of your system then that has nothing to do with latency. If decreasing the latency changes the sound it is a secondary effect and has nothing to with the delay.
I will accept that the longer the signal stays in the system and the more it is passed from device to device the more likely that timing errors will occur, but those errors are not caused by latency.
.
.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
.
Let me give you a simple example..You decide to play a song and hit the play button and 100 milliseconds later sound comes out of your speakers. There is 100 mS of latency.
You do it again but this time you wait a second before you hit play after you decide. You now have 1.1 seconds of latency after your decision.
So it will sound different with a different amount of latency?
Of course not. Like I said, if reducing it makes it sound different then something else is going on. The delay (the latency) can't possibly make it sound different.
.
.
Edits: 02/18/12
It obvious you have no real experience with latency accept Wiki and arm chair logic.
I suggest you actually try latency experiments.
Two identical things can not sound different, which is why all bit perfect data sounds the same....Hmmmmm
But then if I change the latency of the data in one case vs. another they aren't exactly the same any more are they???
Using your logic jitter at the source should not matter no matter how high because its all going to get rebuffered/reclocked at the Dac end. But then some people would argue that jitter in any part of the chain matters and sounds different.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
.Your reasoning is flawed
You did A and then B happened so A had to cause B.
You changed latency and the sound changed so the change in latency changed the sound.
That is as conclusive as I farted in bed this morning and an hour later the sun came up so farting causes the sun to rise.
I told you I accept that changing the settings on your computer changes the sound, the point you ignore is that this change is not related to latency. Yes, changing a setting in your system that affects the latency changes the sound, but it is not the latency change that did it. The delay itself cannot change the sound as I clearly illustratedLatency is delay, that's all it is. It doesn't matter where the delay comes from; waiting to press play or the time the signal spends in the system... try to get it through your head that delay is delay is only a delay.
If you can explain how waiting a second to press the play button could change the sound then I will accept you as the digital god.
.
Edits: 02/18/12
"Your reasoning is flawed
You did A and then B happened so A had to cause B.
You changed latency and the sound changed so the change in latency changed the sound.
That is as conclusive as I farted in bed this morning and an hour later the sun came up so farting causes the sun to rise."
Excellent!!!!
Unfortunately, many of the inmates are clueless when it comes to scientific method, logic, statistics, whatever. What do you expect from an asylum? Some issues from the past: offset errors when ripping files from CD, identical rips sounding different as a function of the drive used to read the CD, WAV files recreated from FLAC files made from WAV files not sounding the same as the original WAV, etc... Plus, of course, the traditional problems when comparing analog components, including lack of precise level matching.
"If you can explain how waiting a second to press the play button could change the sound then I will accept you as the digital god."
The sound will be different each time the play button is depressed. This includes (a) the sound waves, and (b) a listener's perceptions. I'm talking correlation, not causation, BTW. There is also the matter of contrafactual definiteness. :-)
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
.
"The sound will be different each time the play button is depressed. "
That was not the scenario I described.
My point was.....
If you wait one second to press the button or not the bit stream to the DAC will be exactly the same barring any outside influences such as AC line fluctuations. Waiting one second is a delay or a latency, therefore the fact that there is a latency does not affect the sound.
However, changing a setting in the computer that results in a change in latency could also affect the sound due to other secondary effects. It would be easy to incorrectly conclude that the change in delay caused the change in sound.
It is also not the same reasoning as bits are bits i.e. perfect sound forever and all bit perfect music players must sound the same. In this case concerning latency everything is identical except for the time of arrival. Different players affect many other parameters of the computers operation so it is not illogical that they would sound different.
I think I've exhausted that line of reasoning. If the others still insist that the two are linked then I'll never convince them otherwise.
.
You don't have to agree with me. I agree with you. :-)
(My comment about the sound differing each time was the most obvious example of how correlation might not be causation. Many reports of "differences" fail to deal with the most basic cause of audible differences, namely varying moods on the part of a listener.)
What does matter is the buffer size and buffer load strategy. This determines the period and duty cycle of the bursty buffer loading processing, which translates into periodic power supply load and thereby periodic jitter. If this periodic jitter is of very high frequency it will be out of the audio range or filtered out by the PLL in a DAC. However, an attempt to run with very low buffer sizes won't work unless latency is low enough, since otherwise there will be buffer underruns. It's conceivable that changes in actual latency will affect the timing of several levels of processing in the computer and hence the waveform imposed on the power supply rails, even if the buffering parameters are unchanged. This will affect the spectrum of jitter and hence potentially the sound. However this will be a third order effect (jitter itself is already a secondary effect due to some degree of reclocking at the DAC). Given that the advocates of low latency have not listed all the variables they are investigating and how they are controlling for them there is no reason to pay much attention to their conclusions. However, the observations are often interesting.
Some people have measured spectra of the analog output of a DAC that shows jitter induced sidebands whose position varies as the buffer reload rate in a computer based transport vary. This effectively puts the lie to those know-nothings who claim "bits is bits". If one creates periodic (deterministic) jitter one can use synchronous detection and measure jitter artifacts that are well below the noise floor of a DAC (and associated measurement equipment. One can also put a scope on the power supply rails in the computer and observe how the waveform varies as the computer configuration changes. It is possible to get to the bottom of these issues if one is so inclined. I'm not, because I am happy with how my system sounds as is. I was willing to spend perhaps 100 hours setting up my speakers and room, a task that resulted in a dramatic improvement in the fraction of recordings that were enjoyable and IMO a much more useful task than further reduction of latency.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
.
Obviously bwb has a different level of experience which shows in his comments.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"Obviously bwb has a different level of experience which shows in his comments."
Yes it is called intelligence...
=======
This remarks shows that you have not investigated or heard the effects of increasing/decreasing latencies (and buffers).
=======
I did a listening test, with negative results on my gear
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/pcaudio/messages/10/102775.html
Please tell us about your investigation and credible listening tests supporting your claim. Thanks in advance.
How does listening test, performed by you using your (mediocre, as you were told at least once) gear, matter for anyone else, with different hearing abilities and level of resolution of the sound system?
Anything that it shows pertains solely to your system and ear/brain combination - not anything nor anyone else.
Perhaps you should read my post carefully first before responding. I said on my gear the test was negative. And asked the claimer to show results of his test. How does that relate to your response?
And BTW you did not post any results of credible tests on your gear showing you can really hear the latency difference. I know, talking takes no effort.
.
Your Linux computer has no computer "like" properties?
Really, your computer is not a computer? My Mac Mini is only used for audio but I have no delusions about it not being a computer.
I don't think hypocritical is the right word to describe your position but it is something along those lines. You ridicule those who use one type of computer you disapprove of and turn around and brag about the computer you have.
I was right, It is hypocrite, I looked it up.
(1) A person who engages in the same behaviors he condemns others for.
(2) A person who professes certain ideals, but fails to live up to them.
I'm going to bookmark this so when I need a good laugh I can easily find it.
.
I don't remember this fellow being as persistent when he used to post here in the past. Why he feels the need to constantly "correct" those of us that don't embrace his views is beyond me.
There are many ways to play music with computers and computer-like components. This place would be very boring if we all did the same thing.
"I don't remember this fellow being as persistent when he used to post here in the past. Why he feels the need to constantly "correct" those of us that don't embrace his views is beyond me."Penis Envy???
Edits: 02/17/12
Mercman is just getting soft....no pun intended.
Perhaps he is starting to think about upgrading away from his personal computer. After all a system like his deserves better.
But then, there is a problem....he has a USB "only" Dac....and no High-End digital front end has USB out.
Quite the Conundrum...the word Suck-Cost comes to mind.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
So if I assemble a computer running Linux I will no longer be using a computer?
"So if I assemble a computer running Linux I will no longer be using a computer?"
Absolutely Merc!!! Even thought Linux is based on Unix with is the underlying OS of the MAC OS!!!
Makes perfect sense to me.. LOL
Don't you think -or- has the thought ever occurred to you that there might be front-ends better suited to High-End audio and better sounding than a Mac and Pure Music?With your gear something like a Linn or a Weiss Front-end would be right at home. Someone who has upwards of $10,000 invested in Power cords alone has no business using a personal computer and a $100 program as a front end.
Linn Majik DSM
Weiss MAN301
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/18/12
He only listens to Grdon's stuff long term, as the rest of his system has been chosen to complement them (valve output, silver transformer, 8-167G Ram, etc etc)
I appreciate your concern and suggestions concerning potential improvements to my system.But the one thing I have learned over the many years of involvement in this hobby, is to find gear that pleases me and not audio reviewers, etc.
I am under no delusion that my setup is the best out there. I'm sure its's not even close. But the one thing I do know is that I enjoy listening to this system. It is musically involving for me and very satisfying. This is why I have not changed my preamp-amp. I still enjoy them.
The equipment you recommended I'm sure are top notch and just might out-perform what I have. But the goal of any audiophile should be to find a setup that works for him and then enjoy the music.
I'm where I want to be-at least for the foreseeable future.
Edits: 02/18/12
.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
.
While it is true that you need to spend a certain amount to get there, spending more does not always equal better.
.
But then a $50 Jensen speaker will probably never sound as good as a $100K pair of Wilsons.
Fact IS, you get what you pay for most of the time....
High-value items will only sound so good. At the end of the day a $3K Shunyata power cord will sound better than a Iron-lung power cord every time.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
But then a $50 Jensen speaker will probably never sound as good as a $100K pair of Wilsons.
Are you at all familiar with the evolution of Wilson's? Do you understand speaker design at all? Do you understand what makes them great sound speakers? What is $50 Jensen? Something is your car door panel?
"Fact IS, you get what you pay for most of the time...."
Clearly not all the time. There is a point of diminishing returns,and at times items are priced to attract a certain market segment and not for sound quality.
"High-value items will only sound so good. At the end of the day a $3K Shunyata power cord will sound better than a Iron-lung power cord every time."
Really... Please tell us why? And will it be 1000 times better?
LOL....
I have no idea, I am using a SB_Touch as my front end. But I guess its a computer too because it is running the Linux operating system.
You guys are just too smart for me, you got me...using digital audio means having a "computer" in the chain.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"I have no idea, I am using a SB_Touch as my front end. But I guess its a computer too because it is running the Linux operating system."
In your opinion when is a computer a computer, or not?
A SB touch is a propose built computer for audio. It has a CPU...It has the potential to run apps if you really wanted to. Same as a router.
What is the difference if you run a MAC or PC and dedicate it to audio and get the OS to a state where is is not infringing on the audio playback?
What is the difference? What is your cutoff... computer no computer?
How and why did you come to this point?
"You guys are just too smart for me, you got me...using digital audio means having a "computer" in the chain."
For most clear thinking people the processor makes it a computer, not the face that you can run Microsoft Word on it...
I have said this to him for quite a few while.
"But then, there is a problem....he has a USB "only" Dac....and no High-End digital front end has USB out."You are so far off base it is not funny... There really is nothing wrong with USB...
Edits: 02/19/12
The village fool again
.The consistent theme in his posts is how difficult it is to get USB audio to work well....
Then he details the agonizing efforts he went to in an effort get his system optimized in the link below.
On the one hand we have Mercman with basically a plug and play USB system vs. a system from Dynaudiorules that took tremendous effort to not be computer based even though it is based on a computer even after avoiding USB, even though he lists USB in the system.
very amusing
BTW I'm using a mac with a firewire pro-audio interface so really don't have a dog in the hunt..
.
Edits: 02/17/12
> The consistent theme in his posts is how difficult it is to get USB audio to work well....
Perhaps he is fmak's long lost twin.
Bill
Bill,
You figured it out!
nt
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
troll response.
I don't see why he couldn't have said what he said without accusation from you, who repeat ad nasueum regurgitated posts what your views on dacs and computer audio playback.
You are obviously goating me for a reply.
There, now I replied to you....happy? Now go away and play.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Can you not try a different computer and if there is no success, ask your dealer for help?
The touble with Japanese firms is that they don't answer queries satisfactorilly.
I tried the DAC on a very old Core Solo U1300 laptop with Win 7, and it managed to install and work in HS mode. However, that old computer was quite slow and when it's use of CPU reaches 100%, music stutters, particularly for high res, but that doesn't matter, because it at least proves that the DAC works in HS mode under Win 7. So, it is probably down to an unresolved compatibility problem with the computer that I wanted to use.BTW, Esoteric's website points to a Microsoft hotfix that solves high CPU usage on Windows when connected to DAC. I downloaded that but it says that it cannot be installed on my old laptop when I tried to install it. On second thought, I think the problem with this hotfix might be that I downloaded it while on another computer and there seems to a few versions of this hotfix that is suited to particular systems. I might try again using the antique laptop in question. I would be happy enough if I can get this laptop to work with the Esoteric since it is there doing nothing anyway.
Edits: 02/16/12
Why not try another fast pc first?
I have learnt to steer clear of equipment when I think that vendors will not provide proper support, and unfortunately Japanese and Korean manufacturers don't, even Accuphase. If one is outside the US, some of the charges by people like Krell are ridiculous, like £300 for flipping switches to change voltage on a CD player from 220V to 240V.
Unfortunately, I don't have another faster PC around, except the desktop probably 15 feet away (well, maybe I can get a mighty long USB cable to try things out).
Actually my ultimate intention was not to actually use that Windows tablet or the old laptop for audio. I was actually thinking about putting a small computer near the audio area as a source, and would like to try out if a Win7/Foobar based system would have a meaningful sound quality difference (for the better of course) as compared to the Squeezebox Duet which I am using or a Squeezebox Touch (which is said to be a step up as a digital transport compared to the Duet). I have sort of grown accustomed to the ergonomics of the Squeezebox controller and would only go the computer (with remote apps) route if the sound justifies it. As with most paranoid audiophiles, I am concerned that a computer may dump all kinds of noises into the system (I do listen to vinyl and CDs).
A properly designed Async USB interface should be trouble-free.
Try a shorter Belkin Gold USB cable and different USB ports on your computer. PC's often have non-2.0 compliant ports. If you can try a Mac Mini, it usually works perfectly, even old ones.
The OS on the PC can also be troublesome. Win7 is generally the worst to get working, followed by Vista. XP usually works flawlessly with KS.
Steve N.
Trouble free, tweaks and all.
Yes, after you install the correct driver.
Well, no kidding. All of thirty seconds work. BFD.
Kind of like getting into the movie for free....after you buy the ticket.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Even though Steve has a vested interest in USB he at least gives truthful advice.
Bravo Steve.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Thanks, guys.
There is always so much to learn (but one starts to wonder why) when it comes to getting a PC and its peripherals to work exactly the way you like.
Got a couple more things to try now (based on pointers from posters and manufacturer). Let's see if I got better luck this time.
Cheers.
It's turned into another e-penis measuring contest. Can you try another PC or laptop?
As you have no doubt seen in post after post in almost every forum USB poses a constant problem to digital audio. It is unreliable and often needs poorly written and supported drivers [software] and extra peripheral devices [hardware] to make it work. The best thing to do is to avoid USB entirely, this will not only save you headaches but money and time spent trying to make it work.You may notice that the audio industry as a whole does not support USB to stream audio to Dacs. This can be seen in the obvious omission of USB out in nearly all music streamers/network player devices. No doubt that as time goes on these players will improve in sound quality, ergonomics, features and be offered at a reduced cost. This will leave USB [only] Dacs as relics of the past forever tied to personal computers.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/15/12
In case you didn't know, it's very prevalent in the pro audio industry. As is FireWire. And, believe it or not, computers. They don't use reel-to-reel anymore.
--eNjoY YouRseLf!.....
Is this forum about Pro Audio or Consumer Audio?
Gang,
You guys know I am right. Why argue with the facts?
If you know of a digital server/streamer that comes with USB out for a USB Dac please post it.
Right now almost every manufacturer of consumer gear has some sort of streamer on the market, I have yet to see one with USB out for a Dac.
Just post a link or a pic....to back up your rhetoric.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=68346
And I think you already own one.
And, on the other hand, what makes you think that USB and who knows what, HDMI? won't be common tomorrow? The only thing constant about digital interfaces is that they keep changing rapidly. Way too rapidly for my taste...
Rick
People keep trying different methods but SPDIF remains the one constant.
USB, Firewire, I2S, blah blah blah.....
In the end, the old faithful coax and toslink always wins.
People need to stop wasting their money chasing pipe dreams.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"People need to stop wasting their money chasing pipe dreams."
I'm dreaming of another pipe besides SPDIF! But in the meanwhile I'm sitting here enjoying music via coax at 16/44. My DAC's so old that's about all she has in her and the music is lovely, but not quite SOTA... But it may be improving soon as it closes in on "vintage".
I enjoy the convenience of USB on computers now that it works well and it is far more capable for audio than these real time, low bandwidth, unidirectional schemes my old stuff uses, but why stop there? As the cost of implementing Ethernet continues to drop in price, power and size I wonder if we still need local busses for audio period. What do you think? If we just networked our audio systems so many problems would be alleviated, especially the long cable issues. Physically an RJ-45 isn't much larger than the USB A connector...
Rick
"People need to stop wasting their money chasing pipe dreams."I thought that's what audiophiles did.
> But it may be improving soon as it closes in on "vintage".You might even become a hip trendsetter.
> As the cost of implementing Ethernet continues to drop in price, power
> and size I wonder if we still need local busses for audio period.There isn't that much difference in hardware required for a USB DAC or an Ethernet DAC. That hardware could include both a USB device connector and an Ethernet connector.
> If we just networked our audio systems so many problems would be
> alleviated, especially the long cable issues.There hasn't been a suitable standard protocol for communications between devices via ethernet. Some candidates exist: Apple's air-play, DLNA (uPnP), Logitech Squeezebox protocol, plain old network file I/O (like Sonos) and Music Player Daemon <--> client protocol.
Once you get beyond the technical issues, there is the chicken and egg issue of the size of the market. An Ethernet DAC isn't very attractive unless there is a large installed base of devices it can talk to.
Bill
Edits: 02/16/12
How about some real progress rather than just change?
"Once you get beyond the technical issues, there is the chicken and egg issue of the size of the market. An Ethernet DAC isn't very attractive unless there is a large installed base of devices it can talk to."
I think the market is heading that way actually. There is the Apple Airport and the Squeezebox stuff certainly has it's followers. While I consider it's implementation a kludge (I know, many don't) it wouldn't take much to clean it up and make it a lot more robust while still maintaining backward compatibility with their extant systems.
The obvious missing element, which is more a mindset than anything tangible, is regarding speakers and headphones as rendering devices on the network similar to printers, scanners, storage... That topology has so very many advantages that it's obvious even to the most casual observer (me) it's what we should do. Power amps and speakers are a SYSTEM. Always have been to folks intent on optimizing their performance. Source and Control are also a logical system as it the remote controlling of them.
Naturally in the way of entertainment and computer systems these different chunks can be mish-mashed together in a zillion different ways and still do the job, but in my mind the jobs they need to do is pretty clear.
As an off the wall example I bought a new printer a while back, think I told you, a Brother that interfaces via RF, USB or Ethernet. So-long Centronics cable... Substitute "speaker" for "printer" and that's just what I want right down to my speakers having the little built in web browsers so I can adjust them and see when they are out of paper. Or, er Headroom!
A rendering device is a rendering device. I want to send music to my wireless headphones or speakers. But I would also like to send them PDF's when my eyes get tired. Yes, my Kindle and maybe my ipad for all I know will read it to me but why shouldn't it use the same audio rendering device as my stereo. And TV. I guess, but I don't know, that it's already a done deal if you use an Apple computer and iTunes, but I loath every aspect of the latter from the UI to the sound so we need options.
The transition will take at most one generation of products. Using an automotive analogy, a high-school friend of mine was given a mint Chrysler from the late '40s that looked like something out of the untouchables and had a full sofa for the back seat. No, let's not pursue that... In addition to the casting couch it also had a "safety clutch". It was an automatic you see, probably one of the first, and they KNEW that folks wouldn't trust them so they put in a clutch that had molded on it's footrest "SAFETY CLUTCH". I read the manual (could it have been leather bound?) to see what the deal was and it said: "Don't use it." and went on in some detail about how it should never be necessary to touch it for the life of the car but it was available in the unlikely event that a failure should occur in the transmission.
Of course powered speakers are already around and widely used and acclaimed and yet have captured little (I think) of the "audiophile" market. If I were in the speaker business I'd put in a safety clutch consisting of a wired input in addition to the wireless LAN connection so that those Kilobuck speaker cables could be used for one more generation... AND, they would of course protect themselves from driver failure due to overload or defects and in addition I'd have it downward adjustable so the user could adjust the maximum time/frequency/level profile to protect his hearing if anything prior in the chain malfunctions including his brain. Sort of the ultimate safety clutch.
And naturally the network/amplifier part of it can be physically separate from the speakers as another transition mechanism allowing use of existing speakers but of course losing the crossover and Eq. advantages.
A lot of us would appreciate an optional preamp that sweeps up all our existing stuff and includes the networking to do things the new way would be nice and comfortable. Just using a computer as the source eliminates most of the need for such a thing but that seems like an anathema for many.
We CAN change! And it can be easy, safe and affordable. Back to the printer, this new $100 one prints 3X faster and at a higher resolution than my $1600 LJ4 did. I'm sure however that it has fewer maximum copies but at my age so do I! Having the speaker folks, the cable folks and the amplifier folks all be different people is bound to drive up our cost, increase our frustration and decrease the performance. Such a deal...
Words from a "hip trendsetter" wannabe!
Nostrarickus
> How about some real progress rather than just change?
I saw computer audio as a chance to get new functionality rather than as just a tweak for better sound. It has been progress for me. It has certainly encouraged me to buy lots more music.
> I think the market is heading that way actually. [computer audio over ethernet]
> There is the Apple Airport and the Squeezebox stuff certainly has it's followers.
Apple has signed up some hardware manufacturers for Airplay but I don't think any of those partners is setting the world on fire. The Apple TV device seems more central than the Airport express.
Logitech might have been able to make the Squeezebox protocols a market standard but they missed their window.
> The obvious missing element, which is more a mindset than anything
> tangible, is regarding speakers and headphones as rendering devices
> on the network similar to printers, scanners, storage...
This assumes that there is a single standard for how a rendering device for audio connects to the source of the data stream it renders.
> The transition will take at most one generation of products.
I'd say more like 3 or more generations. Maybe there are some 1st generation products out now.
It took quite a while for network printing to become simple to install and set up. It took years for wired networking and internet connections to become simple and foolproof to get going.
> Of course powered speakers are already around and widely used and
> acclaimed and yet have captured little (I think) of the "audiophile" market.
Once there are $ 50,000 to 200,000 "audiophile" models available, powered speakers might become more acceptable. Joking aside, I doubt that most high-end audio types will embrace powered speakers.
> Naturally in the way of entertainment and computer systems these
> different chunks can be mish-mashed together in a zillion different
> ways and still do the job, but in my mind the jobs they need to do
> is pretty clear.
There are various kinds of recent products that combine several functions. Some examples that interest me:
- AVI ADM 9.1 - active speakers with DAC, multiple inputs, remote control of volume and input selection
- JBL LSR4326P and 28P - active speakers with DAC, multiple inputs, remote control and DSP room analysis and correction
- Focal active speakers with wireless link for audio (I don't remember the model name)
> a Brother that interfaces via RF, USB or Ethernet.
> Back to the printer, this new $100 one prints 3X faster and at a higher resolution than my $1600 LJ4 did.
I too had an LJ4 in the past (and an Applewriter.) I have a Brother MFC laser printer now, connected via ethernet cable to our LAN. It just works for printing from my PC or my wife's PC. Several generations of development has made network printing much more routine than it once was.
> We CAN change! And it can be easy, safe and affordable.
Preach, Brother!
I have 3 DACs - one per room. I have no preamp in use. I have powered speakers in one room and 3-way active speakers in another room. JRMC on the dedicated MusicPC plays music in any of the 3 rooms. In our home office, either the MusicPC or my personal PC can feed digital input to the DAC in that room. I can control the JRMC on the MusicPC from any other PC we use including a laptop.
I'm certainly moving away from racks of separate components to using as few components in the audio stream as I can.
I needed to learn how things worked and do detailed consumer research to pick the parts and combine them. And it seems a bit ad hoc. An improved future might let anyone just pick components and combine them without understanding much about how they work.
> Words from a "hip trendsetter" wannabe!
There is still time for you to be a trendsetter.
Bill
Actually I think I'm just trying to convince myself Bill!
I'm usually near the rear in the parade of progress and I'd probably still be using records if the record companies hadn't soured me on them decades ago by stamping out horrible sounding, warped, melted glop made from regrinds and floor sweepings.
It may be cool to bitch about CD's in these parts nowadays but I actually was an early adopter even though they were very expensive (as was my CDP-101). But I could finally start buying music again even though they weren't as good sounding as the best records. Except for Sheffield Labs there were no longer any 'best records'. It was the worst of times for vinyl...
And...I still have them all, and with I think two exceptions, that "perfect sound" is indeed asymptotically approaching forever! And it's sweet to not have to turn them over or tape them!
So I'm good with digital and find that 'good' 44/16 sounds satisfying to me and I believe that most of the time the recording process is the limiting factor. I have also found that, especially on a given player, there may be variations due to the pressing process. The latter is a driver to computerize the data for me. But clearly not as strong of one as it is for most folks on this forum since I'm still dragging my feet. I also have a few hi-rez downloads and they typically sound good but the best are simply mesmerizing. It's a good, if confusing time for home audio.
Thanks for the links, just got done eyeballing the manual on the JBL, the only thing it's missing is a chocolate milkshake dispenser and built in WLAN.
Retro Rick
> It may be cool to bitch about CD's in these parts nowadays
> but I actually was an early adopter
Your reputation may never recover.
> if the record companies hadn't soured me on them decades ago by
> stamping out horrible sounding, warped, melted glop
> made from regrinds and floor sweepings.
> So I'm good with digital and find that 'good' 44/16 sounds satisfying to me
I have similar memories. The real-world LPs I wanted to listen to weren't that great. From about 1988 on, most classical music CDs have produced very enjoyable listening for me.
> Thanks for the links, just got done eyeballing the manual on the JBL,
There were several things of interest to me:
- speakers including a sub are connected via Cat5/6 cable that transfers control information.
- the remote volume control affects all connected speakers including a sub.
- Room correction measures and corrects for all connected speakers.
- You can upload response measurement to a PC via a USB device connection
- You can mess around with the room correction curve on a PC and download the correction info to the speakers.
- The built-in DAC and multiple inputs would reduce the number of boxes I required.
The DSP is aimed at reducing one response peak or elevating response in a dip. It does show the possibilities of thoroughly integrating DAC, DSP, preamp and power amp functions into the speakers.
> the only thing it's missing is a chocolate milkshake dispenser
> and built in WLAN.
Well, those models came out in 2006. Maybe it might be time for new models soon. However, since these are pro-audio products for the music industry, I think the dispenser should provide something stronger than a milk-shake.
> It was the worst of times for vinyl...
Sounds like "Tale of Two Cities". I think the best of times came later for CDs.
Bill
> Is this forum about Pro Audio or Consumer Audio?
Pro gear is chosen by quite a few AA posters for a DAC or even speakers.
> If you know of a digital server/streamer that comes with USB out
> for a USB Dac please post it.
Auraliti PK90 USB
> Right now almost every manufacturer of consumer gear has some sort of
> streamer on the market, I have yet to see one with USB out for a Dac.
There are far more spdif input DACs with an SPDIF input (and HT receivers) than equipment that with USB connectors to allow it to be a USB host.
----
The fact remains that if you want to connect a DAC to your Windows laptop, you'll find USB ports but no spdif connector on most laptops.
Bill
Odd advise from one who states on his website: "... So I went back to my 6" [USB] cable and removed the ground and power lead and low-and-behold it worked. Not only did it work but the sound was perfect."
Guess some folks just want to hog the good stuff! Let the rest of them eat monodirectional TOSLINK, symbol induced jitter and all...
Rick
Whats odd is that people read a statement and think it is valid for all time. That statement reflects an observation that was made more than a year ago.
Even still I made no negative remarks as to the sound "quality" of USB, only that it is not as robust as coax or toslink because it requires so much effort to make it work.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
"so much effort to make it work?"
I plug in the M2tech interface to the back of the computer. I hook up a coax cable to the back of the interface that goes to the input of my universal CDP and it plays me music.
I don't understand what you mean by "effort" can you please explain?
Thanks,
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Gang,
You guys are like a pool of piranha, or should I say sharks.
The slightest word or phase you bite and cling onto to try to draw blood.
"Effort" required to make it work. See the very first post in this thread and ask yourself is this person using "effort" in trying to get USB to work?
Then there are the other thousands of other users who spend extra effort to get USB to work properly.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
> Whats odd is that people read a statement
> and think it is valid for all time.
"Best if read by Jan. 01, 2012."
> That statement reflects an observation that was made more than a year ago.
Perhaps I'll wait for next year's pronouncements from you.
Bill
What kind of effort are you talking about?
I plug the thing in, and use software like Pure Music, Fidelia, Audirvana Plus, and Decibel. No special anything is required.
I just don't see what the fuss is about. I'm sorry if you have troubles making it work. I guess I can help you if necessary.
But it does require that you use a decent computer and USB DAC.
You must have missed all the posts concerning troubles with USB....in case you hadn't noticed this thread is one of them.
Once you help this gentleman you can go around the net and help the hundreds or thousands of others who are not satisfied with USB.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
...the hundreds or thousands of others who are not satisfied with USB.""
you are so funny!! Have you been counting again? :-)
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Yep I used my fingers and toes.
Then I had to used some multiplication, I stopped when I got a cramp in my big toe...I was at 98,756 people.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
.
"In this land right now, some are insane and they're in charge. To hell with poverty, we'll get drunk on cheap wine."
Poorly executed USB interfaces are the issue here. Esoteric makes wonderful products, but the USB interface might have issues. As I previously stated, if you want trouble-free USB, use the companies I previously suggested.
.
Tony Lauck
"Diversity is the law of nature; no two entities in this universe are uniform." - P.R. Sarkar
Apart the long discussion here of why the Teac usb isn't recognised and working with a Windows 64 bit Tablet, there is another long and sad tale on Computer Audiophile about a Moon dac not working with a MAC.
USB audio issues are not part of a troll, but part of a cover up by some promoters of the inteface.
of your own posts are as troll like.
"As you have no doubt seen in post after post in almost every forum USB poses a constant problem to digital audio. It is unreliable and often needs poorly written and supported drivers [software] and extra peripheral devices [hardware] to make it work."This is the equivalent of saying that a poorly designed amplifier that can't drive a 4 ohm load somehow condemns all amplifiers. My Wavelength dac never has had an issue with my Macs or PCs.
If one wants to use a USB dac, there are numerous companies with reliable, proven products. Wavelength, Ayre, Empirical Audio, dCS, Wyred 4 Sound, Berkeley Audio, Weiss, Asthetix, and Audio Research to name a few.
As for other forms of audio playback such as streamers/network player devices, etc, I say let the consumer pick what works best for him.
There are many paths to playing music and you are entitled to your opinions. But I listen to my USB DAC 4 times a weeks with never an issue.
Edits: 02/15/12 02/15/12
Your Wavelength Dac will be an expensive door stop in 5 years if you ever decide to come out of the dark ages and stop using a personal computer as a front end.
Of all the companies you listed how many are stupid enough to produce a USB only product? USB input only serves to increase sales as it increases versatility, its not there because it sounds better than the other inputs.
Like I said, the future does not include USB digital out.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
If the Wavelength dac works well today, why wouldn't work as well 5 years from now? Certainly Gordon could write new code for the dac to support future USB interfaces such as USB 3. But is doesn't look like USB is going to the trash heep anytime soon.As I've stated many times, I'm not a USB advocate. I love music, and will use dacs that contribute to my enjoyment of music. If something comes along that is better, I'll probably purchase it if I have the resources.
I love using a computer as a front end. It has proven to be reliable, and quite frankly, a good deal of fun.
Since you seem to be able to predict the future, do you have any advice for investments?
Thanks
Edits: 02/15/12
Yes, do not invest in a USB only Dac.
A penny saved in a penny earned.
Also get rid of current investments who's value will diminish greatly over time, never to return...ie USB only Dacs.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Really?
Absolutely Uncle Fred! I own a Wavelength DAC not because it uses USB, but because it sounds so damn good. If a much better DAC comes along that uses a different interface, fine with me. For now, I'm a happy fellow.
Edits: 02/15/12
"For now, I'm a happy fellow."
Merc,
You must be a total idiot!!! How in the world can you be happy listening to your wonderful sounding system with a USB DAC. Please stop imeaditly!!!
Some people have no life so they come here just to be annoying...
regards
Bob
of tne from a couple of years ago when only Gordon's usb will do
Ah, but I was so much older then. I'm younger than that now.
wiser in youth?
Enjoy this:
That's a quote from My Back Pages by Bob Dylan. I guess you're much younger than I thought Fred :).
Mercman,I am surprised that you of all people here still use a personal computer as a front-end. I mean you can afford much MUCH better. What gives? Do you have stock in Apple or something, or are you just too lazy to upgrade?
Let me guess....its the Sunk-Cost fallacy that keeps you tied to a personal computer as a front end because your Dac "only" accepts usb. Oh well, like I suggested dump the Dac and get with the times.
Here is a suggestion, get yourself a Squeezebox Touch and use the tweak to make the USB work. You will not only save some cash but you will experience sound that is more neutral as supposed to the euphoric sound of the audio players you are using.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/15/12
Johathan Valin of the Absoulte Sound has been testing the Wavelength Crimson/Denominator HS. He felt, in a brief note in the latest issue under Editor's Choice, that it was very neutral sounding with a review coming in the near future. The poor bastard doesn't have the Silver transformers that I have :)I don't claim that this is the best sounding dac or setup. But I'm enjoying listening to music on it. What more can one ask for?
If you have better, that's great. But I love what I have.
Edits: 02/15/12
Merman are you feeling okay???
I am sure I clearly wrote about the front-end not the Dac.
Never mind, as long as you are happy and Lucy doesn't bite a hole in your ass its fine.
Enjoy.
BTW, I don't have better, only different.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
I understood you. I am getting a very neutral presentation with my Early 2011 MacBook Pro and Pure Music.
If the Wavelength dac works well today, why wouldn't work as well 5 years from now?Sure it will work great as long as you use a personal computer.
You also missed the nearly half of the sentence when I said... "if you ever decide to come out of the dark ages and stop using a personal computer as a front end. "But is doesn't look like USB is going to the trash heep anytime soon.
Not for personal computers, nope not in the trash as all.
Looks like your safe, better hope Apple does not decide to get rid of USB in favor for Bluetooth or like-technology to feed computer peripherals. As it stands Network printers are cutting the cords and Bluetooth mice and keyboards need only to catch on then no more need for USB...unless you think Apple will keep USB just to cater to people with USB Dacs.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
Edits: 02/15/12
OK,
Maybe YOU should come out of the dark ages! This whole thread is sort of silly because your stand-alone DACs are going to be soooo yesterday tomorrow...
The obvious way to optimize home audio is RF to the speakers. If you can't sort out why that is, let me know.
Soon all this fuss about DAC's and cables and such will be over. And by the way, so will piles of black boxes, it'll just be your computer and speakers.
May not be a brave new world but it will be simpler!
Rick
That's about as poor excuse for a contrarian as I've seen in a while.
Given all the peripherals that use USB; printers, cameras, iPads, etc, why would they do this?
Take Thunderbolt- one can purchase a device from Sonnet that will allow you to use ExpressCards for USB, Firewire, etc. with a Thunderbolt connection. There are many ways to connect USB devices even if Apple abandons USB.
But 5 years is a long time; I'll probably want a new toy by then.
But 5 years is a long time; I'll probably want a new toy by then.
I bet that new toy won't be a USB only Dac....better sell that Wavelength while you can.
Dynobots Audio
Music is the Bridge between Heaven and Earth - 音楽は天国と地球のかけ橋
My future financial well being is not dependent on audio toys. I have greater worries about the state of the US economy given the gigantic deficits we are running. This is something to worry about.
Eduardoo,
This is a USB problem, not a software problem. The following could be the problem or like most PC's it maybe a case of everything is marginal and then it not working:
1) USB Cable
2) USB port
3) DAC USB controller
Basically what is happening is that the device is enumerating. This is the first step in any device that is connected to a computer. This tells the computer what it is and what driver to connect to and what protocols it supports. It sounds like when the driver loads it is sending or receiving information about the device and at that time the lower level USB driver (the one that talks to the hardware) is kicking this device off the active list for protocol violations or poor communications capabilities or both.
I would try other cables and other ports. NEVER use the USB ports on the front of the PC's as these are not HS capable. Always use the ones on the rear of the PC.
Thesycon has a new USB port tool on their website it maybe worth trying to look at the port and see what that says. Or use Device Manager and look at each port to see what state it is in.
Thanks
Gordon
J. Gordon Rankin
Thanks, Gordon.
For cables, I already tried two (maybe I'll try more). As for ports, unfortunately, the PC in question is a tablet which only has one USB port. If I put a USB hub there, would it "see" things differently? BTW, as I was going through the installation process, there had never been any exclamation mark anywhere in the device manager.
Did you get any reply for your enquiry to the manufacturer?
Yes. The first time around, I managed to get it working up to 96kHz (KS and Wasapi) under normal mode, but HS mode still has that connect then disconnect syndrome. Today, I have been suggested to uninstall and install both Foobar and the Esoteric software again. Haven't gotten around to try it out yet.
I wonder if it could be the computer itself at this point. Got any buddies who can help by trying a different laptop?
I just found that there is a MS hotfix that may get my other (obsolete) Win7 laptop going. That one had been able to get connected with the Esoteric all along, but playing anything would push CPU level to 100% and music stutters. The hotfix supposedly would fix that. Will try again.
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