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In Reply to: RE: Pike? Suwanai or Yoo? Sibelius Violin Concerto Releases by the Cupload.... posted by jdaniel@jps.net on September 23, 2016 at 07:40:30
Sibelius described his Violin Concerto as "a drink of cold water." Mullova's recording has been called icy cold -- the epitome of nordic sensibility. And yet, as we all know, there is passion in the heart of the music of Sibelius. Who captured the romantic heart of the Sibelius Violin Concerto better than Ferras, who can be seen in a YouTube clip playing the 2nd movement with tears in his eyes? But my favorite recording, beginning to end, is Dylana Jenson. Not super slick nifty high rez, I'm afraid. Nor is the historic recording of Neveu, who was famous for the piece.On my deathbed, I will not once think "I sure wish I had heard more super duper high rez recordings of Sibelius" (or any other great work). I will, however, feel great appreciation and give my dying thanks for the amazing artistry of Jenson and Neveu and Mullova and Ferras for their inspired renderings of Sibelius, each telling a different story from the score.
I have more than 30 recordings of this piece. The only recording since the ones I've mentioned that comes close to having anything insightful to say about this VC is Lisa Batiashvili. She has a new recording of this concerto due to be released in the next month or so. Which I will want to hear. NOT because of some fixation on high rez, as I really don't give a crap about that. But I am interested in her insights into the music.
"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
Edits: 09/23/16Follow Ups:
I think Lisa's been coasting over the last few of years - geez, remember that godawful Bach album? And what did she do before that? -Tchaikovsky song transcriptions with Nezet-Seguin (not even a complete album)? And now, she re-records the Sibelius, and, of all the people she could have collaborated with, she's got Mr. Clodhopper himself conducting. Ugh!
Like those of many composers, Lisa's first thoughts seem to have been the best when she performs any given peice in the repertoire. On the new recording, she proposes to be "as true and faithful to the score as possible. . . avoiding all the known and repeated traditional playing conventions and habits". Yeah, right. Frankly, I'm not holding out much hope, but I suppose I could always be pleasantly surprised.
"Clodhopper?"
"See how fast this baton is moving? So fast you can barely see it!"
two of which are HIP and Barenboim. Wait, what if Barenboim embraces HIP? Heads might explode...
"And this one? I think it's 'F', right?"
. . . that Neveu recording (which I didn't keep for very long) is awfully slow in the "dancing polar bear" movement compared to the current crop of babe violinists. BTW, I also owned the Mullova/Ozawa recording for many years, and I agree that it's a great performance - but, for me, it's by no means greater than those of Suwanai or Pike, and the recorded sound is relatively (and a bit unpleasantly) constraining, compared to some of these newer recordings. In fact, when I'm on my own deathbed, I'm sure I'll thank my lucky stars that I lived into an era when I could experience great artists' recorded performances in relatively unconstrained sound.
I've had only about 17 or so Sibelius Violin Concerto recordings come through my library at various times, some of which are still there. But I've played the piano reduction of the concerto with several local violinists, so I like to flatter myself that I do know the work.
And finally, I'm wondering why you're on such a war-path against hi-rez? All it does is allow more subtlety and nuance (as well as range) to come through. It's by no means a panacea, but, really, there's nothing inherently "slick" about it and I'm glad we're getting more and more choices on the various hi-rez media.
I don't hate hi rez and am not on the warpath against it. I still buy SACD when the choice is between that and red book. I buy DVD-A and bluray. (I don't do streaming, but I am happy if others like it.)
Yes, the Neveu is slow. I was just illustrating the variety available to us by mentioning those particular recordings, which are all very different, each having its own vision of the piece. One would never hear that kind of variety if one limits choices to hi rez.
"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
Perhaps not. However, just on SACD we have available the following:HeifetzWhile on a couple of download sites which I just checked (and this is by no means exhaustive), you can find (24 bits at a minimum):
Suwanai
Pike
Kraggerud (excellent - I have it on DVD-Audio)
Chung (Japan only)KangSo, OK, this is not the ultimate in variety, but it's still pretty wide (perhaps surprisingly wide) nevertheless.
Christodoulou
Yoo
Roussev
Spivakovsky
M
But I like to feel as if I'm a bit more on your side - after all, check out my recent post over on hi-rez highway, where I stated that I still do a lot of listening in two-channel only. Don't take my enthusiasm for multi-channel as evidence for my being "on your case" for listening in two-channel. ;-)
On any other day, I find myself defending hazy mono. Please don't pigeon hole me.
I know audio is an important issue for some folks here, and I have my own audio preference - quality vinyl whenever I can find it, my preferred listening choice when I have it. It's all just personal preference.
"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
/
All of those Mono LM-2xxx Dogs are gone now.
You're a digital, Hi Rez guy now.
do I have to do to prove my frickin' musical purity to her Amphissa??? And yes, I have family in Berlin.I welcome dickish, condescending replies, but only if the poster does his due diligence .
I would have gladly sold my beautiful mono lp to Amphissa, but instead Im going to price-gouge the Chinese.
Edits: 09/24/16
Fine work by the young Ms. Wicks with Sixten Ehrling. Sibelius himself was a fan of hers. But as for sound quality, even Camilla herself wasn't happy. I read an interview of her in which she complained there was a flaw in the recording equipment which made her sound out of tune. I then listened to the LP, not great sound even by early 50s mono standards, but I could hear no trace of any intonation problems. I shrugged. Life went on.
Years later it was finally reissued on CD by Biddulph. Listening carefully to that, I'll be d@mned if a slight trace of wobbling pitch instability didn't raise its ugly head.
Bottom line, it's nice to have the Sibelius-approved Wicks version, and its also nice to hear the vastly better recorded latest high-rez versions. It's all good.
Listened to parts of the Balcony scene and Petrenko seem blessedly in tune with the erotic elements. Those grand, cosmic orchestral arpeggios seem to have been given their due; not too slow, not too fast.
Gergiev and Litton don't do it for me, but we're talking full-length samples on computer speakers, so take with grain of salt.
The Petrenko is pure DSD FWIW.
In a word: wow. Petrenko just nails it--so full of vitality and passion, with many unconventional touches as well. Great sound quality, too. I think this will likely become my favorite R&J.
Russell
I'm gonna try to figure out how to download a Hi-Rez version that will be compatible with my 'ancient technology' multi-bit DAC.
streaming from TIDAL!
But if I can get a 24/96 or 24/192 PCM download, I'm going for it.
New reference Prokofiev R & J for me.
,
See if you hear any short passages that you do not recall from earlier recordings?
but I would have preferred just a touch of ritard (or slowing) in the bare, unison string descent leading up to them. No chance to prepare for the final ecstatic climax either, but then, our poor imaginary dancers would topple over. But then again, they're imaginary.Otherwise, even the over-played music, (esp. from Suite #1), is charming and fresh. I don't recall the lyrical trumpet solos so beautifully-played. The clarinet soloist infuses Juliet's music with a touching sadness. Very special stuff.
Everything that the Maazel and Gergiev lack--grace, charm, cartoonish humor, tremulous longing--is here in spades, no fussiness to distract. Reminds me of Leinsdorf's and Ozawa's Boston peformances. The BSO has a long history with Prokofiev's wonderful ballet.
As a recording, I knew I'd be in for a treat when the repeat of the opening string material--an octave higher the second time around--didn't grate on my ears. The militaristic music makes it's incisive impact too: "The Fight" from Act I is a lot of fun, and the stretch with raspy, muted horns and low trumpets made me smile. The the brass chorales elsewhere have a beautiful burnished glow.
I was worried the Oslo wouldn't be able to summon the "Russian" weightiness needed for the music, but I was quickly reminded that you can see Russia from Oslo's back yard. : )
Recordings of the full ballet don't come around too often; it's interesting that there wasn't much fanfare. I wonder what the British press, (Gramophone and Music Web, etc) will think, as well as Mr. Hurwitz.
On to Act II.
Edits: 09/25/16 09/25/16 09/25/16
Speaking on the Maazel CD re-issue:
"By the time Prokoviev came to write this great ballet in 1935, Russia was the only country that still had a tradition of "classical" ballet--that is, full-length works of several hours with a single coherent story line. Prokofiev's model was Tchaikovsky, and like his predecessor, he encountered severe problems getting the work produced. The dancers thought the music too complicated and unsuitable for dancing, and so the piece was first performed in Czechoslovakia, only later making a triumphant stage debut at the Bolshoi. It has never been out of the repertoire since. This recording set a new standard of orchestral excellence in performance of this music, and is still the version of choice for the complete ballet." --David Hurwitz
Hopefully, David will soon adopt a 'new' standard for this work.
I have.
Maybe, just maybe, Juliet's Funeral could have used a bit more forward momentum, (though Audiophiles will be too busy delighting in the low brass of Juliet's Funeral to notice!), and the end of the scene doesn't have quite the cold horror it needs.
Juliet's Death is slightly slow as well, though I don't blame Petrenko for wanting to luxuriate in Prokofiev's soaring lyrical melodies.
An all around success as long as the listener is OK with Petrenko's avoidance of rubato in the Balcony Scene, the one place I would have preferred a more flexible approach, even if unrealistic for the ballet stage.
Especially as this is one of my favorite works.
Even though it's available for streaming at 16/44.1 via TIDAL, I'll be looking for a Hi-Rez PCM download once it's officially released.
and save the DSD for when you get a DSD-capable DAC. I don't recall seeing the LAWO label on other music-download websites, so why not take advantage of Native DSD's LAWO sale?
Russell
Naxos Direct does sell the LAWO Classics label. The last issue with Petrenko and OSLO is available and is an SACD, so one can dream...
But dreams are quickly dashed as the R & J is on the Naxos Direct site as a pre-order shipping 10-28-16 and only as a CD.
But at $24.99.
The above LAMO offering is NOT on Naxos' streaming site, ClassicsOnlineHD so no Hi-Rez for Ivan, even streaming.. :-(
Until later this month?
Perhaps it will show up on the normal channels later?
Doubt I'll ever go with a DSD capable DAC as I'm locked into old discontinued chip (PCM-1704UK) multi bit DAC technology.
Would be interesting to know for certain if this was recorded in DSD, converted to PCM for editing or not, and back to DSD or what.
It it were recorded in DSD why not release it as an SACD?
This one?
Amazon wants a kings ransom for it ($46.92 pre-order) PLUS...
Not up for streaming on any of the (many) service I subscribe to anywhere that I can find. :-(
Download?
Where did you get it?
It's on Tidal and Apple Music now.
And yet I could not find it yesterday on TIDAL searching 'Petrenko' or 'Prokofiev'.
Go figure.
I
Thanks,
And me without DSD capability and it looks more like 28 POUNDS Sterling!
Hope for a $20 or so download at 24/96 PCM soon?
Or I found one place in Europe selling the CD for about $28 so maybe that will be it.
Sounds good even at Free Spotify MP-3 quality but those ads are LOUD and badly timed!
Yes, it's good. But as you say, Spotify's ads make it unlistenable. It's really only good for helping you decide what you want to buy. And as jdaniel says, I'm not about to pay even a modest $10 per month for MP3 quality.
listening now and sharing with my 'Prokofiev loving wife'.
Such is my life as a cheap shit that won't pay $10 a month for 320kbps MP-3. :-(
Because they were more plentiful and sounded great on my system which didn't image all that well anyway.
Still have 1,000 or so classical mono LP's in my collection.
Sadly no Camilla Wicks in my collection, but I do have one Ginette Neveu someplace around here but I can't seem to find it. :-(
But it's not Hi Rez so maybe?
For some reason I've always liked it.
.
"Life without music is a mistake" (Nietzsche)
For some reason I didn't get the picture posted.
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