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In Reply to: RE: You Have NO Idea What You're Talking About posted by Newey on October 25, 2015 at 21:33:07
the tonic G, which can be disorienting to diatonically-oriented ears. Perhaps that's why you didn't think the piece ended very decisively. In Mixolydian and other modes BTW, the "leading tone" (or 7th note) is best called the subtonic.
The final alternating chords are F/Bb/D (connected by E, F) and landing on G/B natural/D. So your claim that the piece ends on the leading tone simply is incorrect. It ends on the tonic "G".
Follow Ups:
Something of substance, rather that the hitting slump of errors you were posting, day after day.
As I've mentioned under Chris Lafayette's post, I going through and seeing if your analysis works out.
However it goes, the outstanding fact is that Stanford did something such as this, even [and I said initially], in 1909. It tells us a lot about the musical climate of the day.
N. Thelman, SSI
Exactly two people bothered to take the time to help you out.
Do wonder why that is?
. . . in which case, the B-natural in the final (G-major) chord sounds like the leading tone to him? Speaking for myself, I hear it modally (with that aforementioned B-flat in the earlier measure giving it a touch of chromatic complexity) just as you do.
I can sing what I hear should actually be the final tonic note, one which the tonic chord would be built. I'm not sure if I'm experiencing C, although that's one explaination.
But, the point is that:
1. Stanford has masterfully succeeded in creating an ending that really does end on the tonic, but sounds as if it's away from the tonic. Not lost blundering in a far away key, in the home key, just not on the first note and chord of the scale.
The way he prepares all of that's genius. Not to take a sophomoric swipe at another work, but it makes Strauss's ending to Zarathustra seem simplistic.
Thanks to Chris -and- grudgingly but with confirmation - to JDaniels; both for revealing and helping to unveil the harmonic structure of this marvelous musical experience.
N. Thelman, SSI
.
If the OP wants to check it out, my link to the vocal score is further below.
Actually, as I look at the final chords (starting 10 bars before the end), I'm seeing G maj - B-flat major (8 before the end) - E-dim (maybe you could say C 4/3, but without the root!) - F major (second half of the bar, seven before the end) - G major (last six bars). It certainly has a mixolydian cast to it, but that B-flat IMHO gives it more complexity than pure mixolydian.
As we both suggest, it's a very vulnerable, beautiful effect - Stanford certainly had his moments!
I agree that it doens't really sound mixolydian. I'm going through the thing, following your analysis, to see if I can connect it up that way.
N. Thelman, SSI
Yes, the Bb adds a nice flavour. Too bad Stanford didn't dabble in modes more often. But VW certainly took up the slack.
Was listening to Boult's first mono performance of VW's Sea Symphony and man, does the music take off. Incredible mono sound as well.
I recorded the Chorus of Westerly's rehearsal of it in the RC Cathedral in Providence, before 2001.
Scott Markwell said it was one of the best orchestral recordings he had ever heard.
Dunno 'bout "best," but the scoring of the Prelude sure is grandiose!
The spirit of Wagner hovers over it, methinks...
OK, Class: Discuss and or refute!
JM
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