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I don't understand the directions.

12.124.18.126

In Reply to: RE: The Limage works. posted by Bigjimsguitars on April 15, 2015 at 14:48:02

I can't figure out at all what the instructions actually mean.

"Have the speakers placed along the lengths of the room, about Ľ to 1/3 from the back wall, and Ľ the breadth roughly."

Which is the lengths of the room? Which wall is the back wall? Which direction are the speakers facing? What is L' and L?

" Then play some vocal music, the hilarious type, the more instruments the better.

Now walk slowly to and fro along the mid-line between the speakers, from one end of the room to the other and then back, may be several times to get the mind set (if the speakers are standing low, you may well have to crawl). Somewhere along the aisle, you would hear the sound getting louder and at the same time it rises above your head, filling the ceiling as if you've entered a Gothic church. Bingo, that is it, the focal point"

Is the "mid-line between the speakers" the line connecting the speakers, or the perpendicular bisecting the line connecting the speakers?

"Mark this focal point and drag your speakers over the lateral line crossing the spot"

What does that mean? Where do I move the speakers to? Do I change where they used to be?

I think I need a picture. Is it clear to everybody else but me?

Follow Ups:

RE: I don't understand the directions. - AkuAnkka 11:42:40 04/17/15 (2)
Well I also have read this slooowly 5 times now, and I just don't get it.

"Have the speakers placed along the lengths of the room, about Ľ to 1/3 from the back wall.." -> really; 1/3 from the BACKwall, not the FRONTwall which is behind the speakers???

"...and Ä½ the breadth roughly" -> what does this mean?

"Now walk slowly to and fro along the mid-line between the speakers, from one end of the room to the other and then back, may be several times to get the mind set (if the speakers are standing low, you may well have to crawl). Somewhere along the aisle, you would hear the sound getting louder and at the same time it rises above your head, filling the ceiling as if you've entered a Gothic church. Bingo, that is it, the focal point. Mark this focal point and drag your speakers over the lateral line crossing the spot" -> so basically this focal point is on the other side of the room, and speakers are dragged to there. But if I understood correctly, they are now quite close to other wall but still facing it? Or should I turn the speakers around at some stage of this process??

I also would love to have a clear picture or such about this process, it just sounds really complicated now :-o
- RE: I don't understand the directions. - Satie 05:48:02 04/19/15 (1)
  Sorry I missed that - that is 1/3 from the front wall (behind the speakers) though most folks end up with the speakers further out. In some cases pulling out to the point of having the speakers more than 1/2 way into the room works better.. Particularly if there are early reflections off a rack or something else on the front wall.
  
  In any case, there is no point in turning the speakers the other way.
  - RE: I don't understand the directions. - AkuAnkka 10:02:34 04/20/15 (0)
    "In any case, there is no point in turning the speakers the other way".
    
    So could you please try to explain a bit in more detail how could I find that focal point, where sound would be "filling the ceiling as if you've entered a Gothic church"? I just can't understand those instructions :-o
RE: I don't understand the directions. - Swamis Cat 09:33:14 04/17/15 (0)
I initially had some troubles setting up the Limage. I discovered that I wasn't using sufficiently "hilarious type" music. When I switched to the Reference Recordings hi definition vocal renditions of Wierd Al Yankovitch everything snapped into place.*

On a more serious (less hilarious) note, I really need to correct for vertical dimension. My 3.7is have never been perfectly vertical on my deep carpeting. They lean way back in an awkward way which my IIIa's don't. Thanks for the tip Satie.

* I always assumes a Google translate issue on this word.
RE: I don't understand the directions. - ahendler 14:18:28 04/16/15 (15)
The instructions I used for the Limage/HK setup was as follows
1) Bring the speakers out from the front wall 40% the length of the room
2) Place tweeters on the inside
3) Place side of speaker 12" from side wall
4) Face speakers straight ahead
5) Sit one to two feet from rear wall
This is my setup
Alan

Edits: 04/17/15
- RE: I don't understand the directions. - AkuAnkka 07:00:00 04/18/15 (8)
  "5) Sit one to two feet from rear wall"
  
  I have always understood that there should be about the same distance between listener and that back wall, than between the speakers and the front wall?
  - The Back Wall - Norman M 08:35:40 04/18/15 (7)
    For the sake of argument, let's assume there is no back wall at all.
    Does that imply that Maggies couldn't then sound their best? I don't think so, AFAIAC a back wall only detracts from the listening experience, and the further away it is, all the better. In fact in some persons ear pinnae shield any contribution from the back wall. Are their listening experiences any the less?
    - RE: The Back Wall - AkuAnkka 09:46:05 04/18/15 (6)
      I don't think so, but if there is a back wall, it surely matters what is the destination from the listener to it.
      - RE: The Back Wall - Norman M 11:17:16 04/18/15 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Back Wall posted by AkuAnkka on April 18, 2015 at 09:46:05
        
        I'm not absolutely certain as to carry-over to home listening experiences but when picking a seat to hear music at live events it's advised (1) not to sit beneath an overhang, as under a balcony and (2) distant from any rear wall.
        
        I think the reasoning is all too obvious. I can vouch for #2 from my experiences.
        
        RE: The Back Wall - Satie 12:38:00 04/18/15 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Back Wall posted by Norman M on April 18, 2015 at 11:17:16
        
        I would say just try it since it works in the context of the Limage setup You are using the room's reflections in this setup more so than you would be in other placements so if you can lay aside the principle of back wall avoidance for this and just try it then you may be surprised by the outcome. The distance from the speaker to the back wall in this setup is significantly less than it is at "normal" 1/3 setups so that backwall reflections immediately behind you are not going to do as much damage to timing. You can experiment with absorption on the back wall behind you to see whether these near reflections are useful or counterproductive.
        
        RE: The Back Wall - AkuAnkka 13:03:17 04/18/15 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Back Wall posted by Satie on April 18, 2015 at 12:38:00
        
        "The distance from the speaker to the back wall..."???
        
        RE: The Back Wall - Satie 20:12:36 04/18/15 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Back Wall posted by AkuAnkka on April 18, 2015 at 13:03:17
        
        Since you have the speaker pulled up nearly half way into the room as opposed to more traditional placement where the speaker is typically no more than 1/3 of the way into the room and usually less. So it is closer to the back wall than usual.
        
        You are also trying to retain a sufficient distance from the listening seat to the speakers.
        
        RE: The Back Wall - AkuAnkka 01:18:05 04/19/15 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Back Wall posted by Satie on April 18, 2015 at 20:12:36
        
        Ok, thanks. But is it really so that the listening position can be only 2-3 feet from the back wall?
        
        RE: The Back Wall - Satie 05:22:43 04/19/15 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: The Back Wall posted by AkuAnkka on April 19, 2015 at 01:18:05
        
        I think most folks who try the Limage setup end up with their seat at 1-2 ft from the back wall. We had a bit of a debate about seat back height that ended up with a consensus that you want the back of your seat well below ear height so that backwall reflections reach you - at least in the Limage setup.
- RE: I think #1 should read: "Bring the speakers out from the *front* wall 40% the length of the room." nt - andyr 15:57:46 04/16/15 (3)
  .
  - RE: I think #1 should read: "Bring the speakers out from the *front* wall 40% the length of the room." nt - ahendler 17:28:10 04/17/15 (2)
    You are correct. I have edited the post
    Alan
    - RE: I think #1 should read: "Bring the speakers out from the *front* wall 40% the length of the room." nt - AkuAnkka 10:16:46 04/18/15 (0)
      But hey, the mention about the back wall in the original instruction might actually be correct:
      
      "Have the speakers placed along the lengths of the room, about Ľ to 1/3 from the back wall, and Ľ the breadth roughly. Now walk slowly to and fro along the mid-line between the speakers, from one end of the room to the other and then back, may be several times to get the mind set (if the speakers are standing low, you may well have to crawl). Somewhere along the aisle, you would hear the sound getting louder and at the same time it rises above your head, filling the ceiling as if you've entered a Gothic church. Bingo, that is it, the focal point."
      
      Think about it; if speakers are 1/2 to 1/3 from the back wall, BUT they are pointing against the front wall, you could then find the focal point for the speakers near the front wall. Then you just drag the speakers to the focal point, flip them around again pointing to the back wall, and that's where they should be. Am I right? The instruction is a bit vague, since it does not say anything about the direction that speakers are pointing on.
    - RE: Actually, my gut feel says ... - andyr 17:44:01 04/17/15 (0)
      that "40%" is an approximation! :-))
      
      If the speaker (or the bass panel mylar, to be exact) was in the 'Golden Ratio' position, it would be 38.2% out from the front wall (and therefore 61.8% out from the back wall).
      
      Regards,
      
      Andy
- RE: I don't understand the directions. - Satie 15:35:59 04/16/15 (1)
  I think you can start from ahender's list and tweak from there. Not every room that can handle the Limage setup successfully will actually do that "cathedral" effect. When tweaking start with tweaking the position from the front wall (the one you are facing) bringing the speakers up nearer to you in small increments of 1" or so, just keep the speakers perpendicular to the sidewalls and at the same distance. You should reach a point where the soundstage "snaps together" and where further advancing the speakers makes the effect fall apart. You can try then to see if you get the "cathedral effect" while doing your "monkey walk" or scooting too and fro on a skateboard.
  
  When you are done with that then go on to balancing the bass by reducing the width of the slot between the wall and the panel to increase bass and pulling away from the sidewall to reduce bass.
  
  When this is done you can try to increase image precision with minor toe in.. If any is needed it will still likely be less than 1".
  
  If you have the slightest reason to suspect that your floors are uneven then use a bubble level to guide you to set the speakers vertically. The slightest departure from vertical will damage or even entirely scramble the soundstage and give you lopsided height cues..
  - RE: I don't understand the directions. - r3332698049 03:37:00 04/25/23 (0)
    Hi,
    if possible, I would like to see mating pictures of H/K Limage's room.
    
    I'm making some new stands for the Timpany IDs and I'd like to understand how to optimize their position/listening.
    
    Thank you
    Rudy
    TIMPANI ID & QUAD ESL63

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