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RE: Magnepan XOvers

68.100.161.29

dumpingground

In Reply to: RE: Magnepan XOvers posted by jrdoe on April 14, 2015 at 11:57:06

I have journeyed from OEM upgraded components, active DSP, and PLLXO.
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=171078
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=184970
http://db.audioasylum.com/mhtml/m.html?forum=mug&n=196102
To characterize my various updates documented here on the MUG forum over the last 3 years I would list them as such:
STAGE I:
OEM XO to speaker level XO with updated components and biamping-> more power, a hint of better clarity and 3D
STAGE II:
speaker level XO with updated components and biamping to minidsp based ALLXO (active DSP based line level crossover)biamping -> significantly better clarity, 3D'ness, you are there feeling in the sound. Less compression, more power in complex music. Thump issues if not careful in power up/down sequence of system.
STAGE III:
minidsp based ALLXO biamping to PLLXO (DAVEY PLLXO with polystyrene caps)-> Very nice jump in quality of sound, especially in the highs and female vocals. Tightness of bass enhanced. Careful attention needed to grounding and shielding of cables to prevent HUM issues required.
STAGE IV:
PLLXO (DAVEY ver w/ polystyrene caps) to PLLXO (USSR FT-1 surplus teflon cap in tweeter circuit)-> again improvement in highs, "S" sounds, female vocals. Not as significant a jump as from initial ALLXO to PLLXO update, but brings in another refinement of quality to the sound. Still need to pay attention to HUM issues.
EDIT: One clarification, I based my DSP crossover comments on my use of the minidsp 2x4 unit which provides analog outputs and uses it's own DAC function. Since that time minidsp has come out with a DSP unit that has digital outputs so you can use your own DAC's for the final stages.

Edits: 04/15/15

Follow Ups:

RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... - andyr 16:09:29 04/16/15 (12)
I have been exploring the miniDSP 2x4 units. Reading the current specs (on the miniDSP site), it seems yes, the minidsp 2x4 units provide analog outputs and uses its own D2A stage.

However, someone told me you can take a feed off before their D2A stage and so use your own external D2A converters (for better sound)? Is this true with the miniDSP units you are using?

If not, can you tell me the name of the miniDSP unit that has digital outputs so you can use your own 8-channel D2A unit for the final stage?

Regards,

Andy
- RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... - dumpingground 18:54:23 04/16/15 (1)
  At the time of my investigations, minidsp had a board called the minidigi that you could add to the minidsp 2x4 to add SPDIF outputs and then use your own DAC. The other 2x8 and 2x10 boards were not available.
  
  I actually purchased a pair of miniDIGI boards and tried them with some DAC's I had on hand. I ended up abandoning this approach because in my setup the minidsp 2x4 did not seem to cleanly reset the minidigi board on power up and power down. Sometimes leaving me in a state with no sound and sometimes with static and sometimes with pop's to my amps on power down. I know that I could have gone to a power up/down sequencer to help out the situation. But at the time I did not want to add that complication to my system.
  - Aah, thanks. nt - andyr 19:11:32 04/16/15 (0)
    .
- RE: Your clarification on the minidsp 2x4 units ... - Davey 17:32:23 04/16/15 (9)
  Andy,
  
  If you want to use your own DAC's, I wouldn't select the 2x4 unit. In fact, knowing your objective, I wouldn't select that unit for other reasons as well. :)
  The 2x8 (4x10Hd) unit is fine, but the DAC's are integrated.
  
  Check the nanoDIGI or miniSHARC unit.
  
  Dave.
  - RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... - andyr 18:02:05 04/16/15 (8)
    Thanks, Dave,
    
    I had a look at them ... but I'll have another look. :-))
    
    There seems to be a problem with my situation that didn't seem to suit the nanoDIGI & the miniSHARC. My problem is that (for stereo) I need to cope with 4 inputs - each side, I need to take in 2 separate outputs from my preamp:
    1. the feed for my bass drivers (which will include the new subs), and
    2. the feed to my mid panels & ribbons.
    
    The feed to the bass drivers comes out of my preamp before the tube output buffer ... the feed to the mids and ribbons has gone through the unity-gain tube output buffer. I (and other users of this preamp who run active XOs) noticed that the signal coming from the tube:
    * sounds much nicer (no 'ss sterility'), but
    * leading edge bass transients were softened slightly.
    
    Hence we use the preamp's "sub out" to drive subs & bass drivers and run the mids & tweeters from the tube.
    
    The 2x4 units cope with this nicely (one input will feed 2 of the 4 outputs, the other input feeds the other 2 outputs) but I seem to remember the nano and the miniSHARC units didn't like it.
    
    Regards,
    
    Andy
    - RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... - Davey 06:15:37 04/17/15 (7)
      "The 2x4 units cope with this nicely (one input will feed 2 of the 4 outputs, the other input feeds the other 2 outputs) but I seem to remember the nano and the miniSHARC units didn't like it."
      
      I don't know what "didn't like it" means. The routing matrix on those two units is extremely flexible and allows many more combinations than the basic 2x4 unit. These units should simplify your external component count, not complicate it. :)
      
      Dave.
      - RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... - andyr 14:03:00 04/17/15 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: nanoDIGI or miniSHARC units ... posted by Davey on April 17, 2015 at 06:15:37
        
        It means, the way I read the specs, Dave, they wouldn't allow me to have (for 4 inputs feeding 8 outputs):
        
        * input #1 (coming from L ss pre out) connects to outputs #1 (L sub) & #2 (L woofer)
        
        * input #2 (coming from L tube pre out) connects to outputs #3 (L mid) & #4 (L ribbon)
        
        * input #3 (coming from R ss pre out) connects to outputs #5 (R sub) & #6 (R woofer)
        
        * input #4 (coming from R tube pre out) connects to outputs #7 (R mid) & #8 (R ribbon).
        
        Whereas using a 'L' and a 'R' 2x4 miniDSP unit allows me to have:
        
        * input #1 (coming from ss pre out) connects to outputs #1 (sub) & #2 (woofer)
        
        * input #2 (coming from tube pre out) connects to outputs #3 (mid) & #4 (ribbon).
        
        I'd be delighted to be told I read the specs on the nanoDIGI and the miniSHARC wrong! :-))
        
        Regards,
        
        Andy
        
        RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... - Davey 19:08:09 04/17/15 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... posted by andyr on April 17, 2015 at 14:03:00
        
        The nanoDIGI unit doesn't allow that, but the miniSHARC or the 4x10Hd unit will. You can indeed have four inputs feeding eight outputs in any type of matrix you select. You may have to add an extra DAC or ADC accessory to achieve it, but it can be done.
        
        I suggest to purchase the miniSHARC plugin for ten dollars and install on your computer and play with it. You will see what I mean and can experiment before you commit to purchase the hardware.
        
        Dave.
        
        RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... - andyr 01:21:57 04/18/15 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "I don't know what 'didn't like it' means"... posted by Davey on April 17, 2015 at 19:08:09
        
        Hi Dave,
        
        I'd love to purchase the miniSHARC plugin but I went to here: http://www.minidsp.com/
        
        and clicking on both the 'v Products' and 'v Applications' tabs on the top of the page brings up a whole list of 'things' ... but this list does not include a "miniSHARC plugin"?
        
        Can you point me directly to the place where I can order the miniSHARC plugin?
        
        Thanks,
        
        Andy
        
        RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... - Davey 06:57:28 04/18/15 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... posted by andyr on April 18, 2015 at 01:21:57
        
        http://www.minidsp.com/products/opendrc-series/opendrc-plug-ins/minisharc-4x8-plug-in-detail
        
        Dave.
        miniDSP plugin link (Open in New Window)
        
        Mmmm, ordered the plug in on the 18th ... but have not yet had any email ... - andyr 04:46:02 04/21/15 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... posted by Davey on April 18, 2015 at 06:57:28
        
        from miniDSP either giving me a URL & a key to download ... or an attachment which is the software?
        
        Should I email them?
        
        Andy
        
        RE: Mmmm, ordered the plug in on the 18th ... but have not yet had any email ... - Davey 05:39:35 04/21/15 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: Mmmm, ordered the plug in on the 18th ... but have not yet had any email ... posted by andyr on April 21, 2015 at 04:46:02
        
        When you order a plugin it arrives in your User-Downloads area about five minutes later. Upper right hand corner of any miniDSP screen....if you're logged on.
        Continue off line. Nobody really gives a hoot about miniDSP issues on this forum. :)
        Dave.
        
        Edits: 04/21/15
        
        Thanks very much, Dave. nt - andyr 15:39:35 04/18/15 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: "purchase the miniSHARC plugin for 10 dollars and install on your computer"... posted by Davey on April 18, 2015 at 06:57:28
        
        .

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