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RE: Good old Wendell

70.44.136.102

Peter Gunn

In Reply to: RE: Good old Wendell posted by mrr on January 20, 2011 at 13:26:26

Thanks............. I think.

:^ )

It's all about the music...

Follow Ups:

going forward... - mrr 12:12:35 01/21/11 (10)
8-) You're Welcome. I'm sure!

I often wonder what will happen to Magnepan when the inevitable happens and Wendell retires or (God forbid) drops in his tracks. As I've mentioned, I've met and talked with Wendell, but the conversations have been brief and face time even less. My point is that I dont really know the man at all. That said, I have been involved enough to form an opinion based on my observations. He's old enough to retire but he looks years younger. I saw him recently when he was doing his roadshow demoing the new home theatre stuff. I overheard him saying he'd just left the gym. He appears to be in fantastic shape and healthy as a horse as the old saying goes. My impression is that he's a type A workoholic. If any of this is true and the Winey's continue to employ him Wendell will be a major influence on Magneplanar's products for the next decade or two. IMHO this is both good, and bad. I appreciate that Magnepan makes the best high end speaker value available. From my selfish personal position I dont want that to change. I'd like to someday be able to afford their top of the line and that will never happen if Wendell decides to take MP into competition with the mega bucks crowd. Now, here's the rub; IF Wendell (and the Winey's) decided to make a statement speaker from a cost be damned we can make the best speaker in the world standpoint, I think that Magnepan would succeed beyond anyone's wildest expectations. In other words, and as others have said in this thread; Wendells a pro and he's been doing this a long time. If he had a statement he felt he needed to make he could have said it better, and he could have been courteous enough to say it in person. But that's Wendell...

No offense to the OP.

bb
- RE: going forward... - magiccarpetride 12:34:39 01/21/11 (9)
  "IF Wendell (and the Winey's) decided to make a statement speaker from a cost be damned we can make the best speaker in the world standpoint, I think that Magnepan would succeed beyond anyone's wildest expectations."
  
  Not trying to open another can of worms here, but I just find it simply unbelievable that, to this day, Magnepan didn't find it ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to fit their speakers with proper bracing, spiking, and stands! Many of my friends, upon hearing Maggies for the first time, feel compelled to get up, approach one of the speakers, and look behind it. Next, they all tend to grab a hold of the speaker, and then invariably get shocked with the realization that the speaker is not standing firmly upright, but is very flimsy and allows even a small feeble child to rock it back and forth with ease.
  
  This is a major flaw, in my opinion, the one that should be fixable by the original manufacturer.
  
  It remains a huge mystery to me why would Magnepan discredit themselves so much in the eyes of potential buyers? I simply don't believe that they would be as audacious to claim that bracing and spiking the speakers produces no audible improvement in the sound quality. And even if they do claim this, at least they should acknowledge that the flimsiness that all potential buyers get surprised with, should be fixed, if for no other reasons, then just to project an image of solid workmanship.
  
  If someone is considering shelling out a couple of thousands of bucks on a pair of Maggies, at least they shouldn't feel like suckers for getting their hands on something that doesn't feel rock solid.
  - They don't claim it makes no difference - josh358 13:35:27 01/24/11 (0)
    In fact, Jim Winey is on record as having said that metal is a better material for frames, but that it's too heavy to ship.
    
    Basically, they aren't making a cost-no-object speaker, but one that's designed to be the best in its price point or category. And they use blind listening to determine which upgrades make the cut. So if enlarging the bass panels or adding a true ribbon has more bang for the buck than shoring up the frames, that's what they're going to go with.
    
    I suspect too that aesthetics has something to do with their decisions: as effective as braced stands are, they don't look as cool as the unadorned monolith.
  - RE: going forward... - DrChaos 16:13:16 01/21/11 (5)
    "I just find it simply unbelievable that, to this day, Magnepan didn't find it ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL to fit their speakers with proper bracing, spiking, and stands! Many of my friends, upon hearing Maggies for the first time, feel compelled to get up, approach one of the speakers, and look behind it. Next, they all tend to grab a hold of the speaker, and then invariably get shocked with the realization that the speaker is not standing firmly upright, but is very flimsy and allows even a small feeble child to rock it back and forth with ease.
    
    This is a major flaw, in my opinion, the one that should be fixable by the original manufacturer."
    
    Sure it's nice if it were different, but is it really a *major* flaw? How much would it cost--all in, with dealer markup & shipping etc to fix?
    
    Grant's stands are $650 direct. Usually it's figured at nearly 2x for dealer sales, so $1200, let's call it $1000. $3000 for a 1.7+ or $2000 for a stock 1.7. Would they sound any different? Somewhere between "not" to "a little bit".
    
    Remember that unlike a box speaker it doesn't have to support a strong pressure gradient from from "in" to "out". The purpose is only to hold the drivers vertically.
    
    Here's where I think they ought to concentrate engineering: increasing stiffness and reducing flex in the pole piece.
    - RE: going forward... - magiccarpetride 16:59:28 01/21/11 (1)
      "Sure it's nice if it were different, but is it really a *major* flaw? How much would it cost--all in, with dealer markup & shipping etc to fix?
      
      Grant's stands are $650 direct. Usually it's figured at nearly 2x for dealer sales, so $1200, let's call it $1000. $3000 for a 1.7+ or $2000 for a stock 1.7. Would they sound any different? Somewhere between "not" to "a little bit". "
      
      My recent experience with placing spikes under my Maggies (thanks to Grant's advice) showed me how important these things really are. I paid about $65.00 for the spikes. i'm sure the original manufacturer could get a much better deal on these same spikes (economy of scales), and should thus consider selling these speakers with the spikes already fitted. Do these spikes make a difference? You bet! What kind of a difference? I'd say the improvements in sound quality are enormous. Especially for that kind of investment.
      
      As far as bracing them goes, no one is suggesting they go with the top shelf product, such as Grant's stands. These are the Cadillac (or, the Rolls Royce) of the stands. A much more modest bracing could be offered as a default configuration, which will go a long way towards instilling more respect into the product. Tweakers will then probably think about replacing the vanilla braces with Grant's real stands.
      
      Right now, without the spikes and being so wobbly, they project a certain 'Mickey Mouse' air, unfortunately.
      - The question then becomes - josh358 13:38:45 01/24/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: going forward... posted by magiccarpetride on January 21, 2011 at 16:59:28
        
        whether they're going to cater to the expectations of audiophiles or have engineering integrity and go for the best sound for the buck. They've chosen the latter. Most of the rest of the "high end" audio business hasn't, so when we buy their equipment, we pay through the nose for features we don't need, like faceplates that cost more than the electronics.
    - RE: going forward... - IEaudiodude 16:33:08 01/21/11 (2)
      I'm guessing part of the reason they made the stands the way they do is also done to keep that look of a thin sleek clean panel standing up in the room,looking almost like its balancing on its own and making great sound. Saving money on production is part of it but getting your attention with it's unique look is part of that wow factor lure.
      - RE: going forward... - gtb75 20:12:49 01/21/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: going forward... posted by IEaudiodude on January 21, 2011 at 16:33:08
        
        Besides the minimally invasive looks of the OE stands, they also make the speakers relatively easy to move (assuming you're on carpet). Convenient if you have a spouse who doesn't like the look of them standing 4-6 feet (or more) in to the room... Slide them out when you want to listen, slide them back when you don't. You can even lift them relatively easily since the stands don't weigh much. No way I could say that about 3.6's on Grant's stands!
        
        No they're certainly not the last word in rigidity, but if looks are and ease of placement/movement are concerns, they're not a bad option. Plus I'd guess they cost virtually nothing to make, so they don't add much to the cost. As others have said here, they're building a product to a price point where it provides good perceived value, yet still is profitable for them.
      - RE: going forward... - JLindborg 16:45:29 01/21/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: going forward... posted by IEaudiodude on January 21, 2011 at 16:33:08
        
        "I'm guessing part of the reason they made the stands the way they do is also done to keep that look of a thin sleek clean panel standing up in the room,looking almost like its balancing on its own and making great sound. Saving money on production is part of it but getting your attention with it's unique look is part of that wow factor lure."
        
        I totally agree!
        The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
  - RE: going forward... - JLindborg 13:09:00 01/21/11 (1)
    I agree with this.
    After reading the initial message and disregarding the condescending tone and rudeness, I find that they seem to lack pride of their product allowing messed up examples to reach the market and also don't care about the craftsmanship more then to the outer looks.
    
    It seems that they want to play in the big boys pool with a boat of good looking plastic that do float but lack the quality of the big boys war ships.
    
    It's "kind" of them to let the "masses" be able to get a hold of a pair of planars for lesser money and a lot of them doesn't care about looking under the socks and would probably not get any smarter if they did.
    
    As planars is regarded as HIGH END SPEAKERS from start, Magnepan will ride that wave but with low end build quality and QC.
    Well, they look cool and it's so incredible that sound can come out of those flat walls that some actually buy them for that.
    That's ok.
    
    But when the rest of the High End buyers that really care about build quality and sound quality, think they are doing a grate bargain on a pair of magneplanars, they are suddenly faced with the dire need of various upgrades.
    
    Personally I find the flimsiness of the hole-plate a serious design flaw.
    So serious that I find it really hard to see the seriousness of the design as a whole.
    But I may be not the main customer they want and look for.
    
    And I to not think that they would EVER present a "special" speaker with all the bells and whistles as that would just prove that the rest of their product line are made with less quality and parts.
    
    So in some way they make planar sound more available to more people with less money and less quality demand.
    And as PG has mentioned earlier, that's their business plan and it's OK.
    
    As for some forum members here... I am amazed of the lack of focus on topics and surrender themselves to personal attacks and childish comments.
    Very sad.
    It just puts a ugly stain on the forum and a bad taste in Your mouth.
    
    Cheers from a cold and snowy Sweden!
    The one who succeeded was the one who didn't know it was impossible.
    - It's cold and snowy here too - josh358 13:46:38 01/24/11 (0)
      But I'm mostly glad Maggies are the way they are. I couldn't care less what they look like inside, as long as they make good sound and work reliably, which they do. And while I'm all in favor of tweaks, I think they sound great out of the box.
      
      It isn't that I have anything against the Rolex-buying fit-and-finish crowd, there's something nice about Swiss watch precision, but personally, I wouldn't want to spend an extra cent for something that doesn't contribute to sound quality and that I won't even see until I fix or mod them.
      
      This is distinct from bad samples. We don't know what happened to the footprint unit, but, obviously, if it came torn from the factory, it's a serious lapse in quality control. So too those speakers that PG described that don't sound as good as they should because the wires are poorly laid.

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