- Posted by Peter Gunn (M) on January 20, 2011 at 07:02:09
In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by Dawnrazor on January 19, 2011 at 22:45:21
I'm very sorry but when are where in my post do I mention myself? As I have had to point out 50 times already it was not about me, you people keep interjecting me, which makes me wonder what your issue is. When I post maggies have QC issue you same people tell me how I hate the company. However another guy just posted about it but for some reason none of you said he hates magnepan. Isn't that strange...Why do we come to this place? To talk about how much we love magnepan speakers? "I just got maggies, I love em... yeah, I love em so much I got 2 pair... two pair, wow you must love em... I'll say, and frank has 3 pair.... 3 pair wow, how come he has 3 pair.... cause he loves em so much...wow..." Is this all that happens here?
No, it's not.
We come here because we do like them but we all, we all recognize they have inherent flaws. They don't need tweaking, they have inherent flaws. So we come to relate what we have done to address these issues and to see what others have done, and thereby make our experiences with them better.
My first problem was he can't even post this himself, he needs a surrogate to post it. Why, can't they talk to us? Instead we get a Wizard of Oz like "Ignore that man behind the curtain" post.
That post is a "from the horses mouth" explanation of why they do business the way they do it. I wasn't aware they owed us any such explanation, and nothing said in it was anything we didn't already know or assume. I don't know what prompted it, but I don't feel he needed to say any of it. Do what you do, we're not stopping you.
However, this IS a special place with a LOT of special people. (who are not me in case you are confused again) Yet that note treats this forum like it's the general public and doesn't know any better. It is essentially trying to blow smoke up our proverbial "ass", and you don't see that?
According to him maggies are fine as they are, they have no flaws, and they are made as well as they can be for a super price. (golden ears and russian gymnasts have agreed on this) What's more they have tried all these silly gimmicks, in fact more than you or anyone else could dream up and frankly that's all they are, gimmicks. But hey, if you want to have fun playing with your goop DR go right ahead, he wants you to have fun, but don't expect their company to give an idea that stupid credence, OK? That's all he said.
I find that comment insulting to the people here who by and large know better, yet you read my post as talking about myself? If you're that far gone I shouldn't be trying to explain it to you.
And finally, I didn't insult him like the other person in question does to people. I simply found his statement disagreeable and said so. I'm not allowed my own opinion, I have to have yours? If you didn't read that from it fine, I'm not going to pass judgement on you, and if I mistook him, my apologies Mr Diller, I was wrong. However if he said what I think he did and worse, truly believes it, someone here should sit him down and have a talk with him.
If you could actually get off your horse for one second, think about their relationship with this site. This is the greatest accumulation of insight into these speakers there is. One would think they would take advantage of that. No, instead of selecting a focus group from here to put questions to, or even invite to the factory once a year for demo and input sessions, they ask 55 year old russian women what they think.
Did they ever even have a presence here? No.
When he did finally start posting here, he got asked questions (some rude but most civil) and he never answered one of them. NOT ONE.
Now, he won't even post himself so he can't be asked questions.
But you don't think this displays a company that has no use for us? That does not give one iota what we think? Look again at the recent post about all the QC issues that guy has with his maggies. Have they ever addressed that with us? Would they ever? Will they ever? There is enough evidence to suggest this company has sold speakers they knew were damaged when they left the factory (and if they don't know then by God are they clueless) yet they will not address this.
But I'm arrogant, right? That's what you took from it? Again, it's funny how me having an opinion makes me arrogant but you telling me how wrong I am not sharing your opinion doesn't make you so. I didn't attack him, I just don't like what he said.
It's all about the music...
Edits: 01/20/11Follow Ups:
- RE: Wow - Dawnrazor 09:23:17 01/21/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by Peter Gunn on January 20, 2011 at 07:02:09
Hey Pg,
I think you failed to grasp my point. I never said I didnt agree with your post...in fact I can see why you feel as you do and think Wendell was being condescending and dismissive.
IMHO his post was prompted by what we do and is a reaction of all the reports about how tweaking makes things better. He has to minimize this kind of thing. Certainly you do the same when anyone mentions anything besides your "frames and crossover" recipe. Waz has already detailed your "Wendell-like" comments:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/MUG/messages/16/167109.html
All I am saying is that your very indignation at Wendells comments is funny because it is your own medicine!!!
No one here remembers the bending of our minds
- Remember PG - delaney@rea-apl.com 11:11:52 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by Peter Gunn on January 20, 2011 at 07:02:09
Magnepan doesn't do email ... So WD couldn't post it himself!
- RE: Wow - gtb75 07:57:26 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by Peter Gunn on January 20, 2011 at 07:02:09
Peter,
You state that "We come here because we do like them but we all, we all recognize they have inherent flaws" - that is simply not the case. And what the hell gives you the right to speak for "we all"? I've been coming to the MUG for years now, but my primary function was never modding them. I came here to find out what electronics pair well with them, how I can optimize my room placement/treatments, and to get the general feedback of others as to what works. Yes I see the modifications that others are doing and I purchased a set of Mye stands based on the things written here and on the AudiogoN forum, but I've never once had the desire to start tearing apart a pair of perfectly good speakers that sound just fine in my opinion. Is there potentially untapped performance in Magnepans, sure... That being said, I choose to unlock that potential by spending that money in other areas of my system - not by spending 2x to 3x the original purchase cost on modifying the speakers. Is that the right or wrong way to do it, I don't know? Is it how I personally choose to spend my money - yes.
Also, as a businessman myself, I would NEVER bash another vendor - especially not the one that my livelihood exists on... It just makes you look bad. You've posted 12 TIMES in this thread already - trying to get people to come around to your way of thinking on this subject. Give it a rest already! There are a number of forums I participate in which BAN manufacturers for this kind of conduct... Maybe the MUG should consider doing this as well? For the most part, people posting in this thread are positive about what Wendell took the time to write and are supportive of Magnepan. People in this thread aren't required to see it your way (or my way for that matter), so accept that fact and move on.
No you're not the only negative person in this thread, but the positives far outweigh the negatives here. While I haven't come out and directly asked him, I'd venture to say that you, more than any other single member, are what keeps him from actively participating here. Because of that, the whole group suffers... Think about that for a minute.
Feel free to respond to this if you'd like, I've said my piece and will not create a dozen posts trying to get people "on my side". This is an internet forum where people are entitled to have their own opinions... I'm able to accept that and move on - are you?
- RE: Wow - Satie 14:08:13 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by gtb75 on January 20, 2011 at 07:57:26
PG is a craftsman and has a carpenter's attitude towards what is a mechanical product.
The production issues and the QC issues bug him because he would not let come out of his workshop anything with the common QC nits and parts quality issues in the maggies.
Read his criticism with that in mind and it will make sense to you.
As with many other products in audio, the maggies leave alot more off the table than on it. The stock speakers are shadows of their potential.
There is no source upgrade you can make that would compare to the effect of bracing or triamping. I know because I did so. Many of the tweakers here have found it to be so too.
Being more frugal than the cool magnepan, I bought used and modified - the equivalent of a payment plan for a new large maggie and a super amp to drive them. But I ended up with something significantly better and at less than half the cost. But I went a little further than normal and dropped the original Tympani midrange for a line array of BG Neo8 drivers that have all the modern technology I always wished Magnepan managed to apply. Knowing what I did with my Tympani, I know that the retail price of it had Magnepan done so - essentially a Tympani with powered bass and high efficiency neodymium magnet push pull midrange. The retail price would be roughly
basic Tympani speaker: 14,000-15,000,
upgrade to Neodymium push pull midrange 5000
Powered bass panels (2 kw) class D 4000-5000
Electronic crossover (they would use a spec made Bryson 10b) 3000
Bracing structures 3000
Dealer assembly 2000
Total 32,000
They would sell about a dozen of these a year. Would it be a compelling value?
It would be against a set of large 90degree Soundlabs or just maybe a set of 45 degree Ultimate soundlabs.
- RE: Wow - Peter Gunn 11:40:47 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by gtb75 on January 20, 2011 at 07:57:26
I'm not trying to make anyone agree with me. I simply stated my opinion. Honestly, free speech in this country is illegal unless you walkstep with the chosen mantra.
Some others entirely mis-represented my post, and I'm sorry, I'm not standing for that. If you don't like me defending myself, then by all means nobody is forcing you to read the posts, so don't. I can't fathom why people like you get uptight that I defend myself, but you don't get uptight that they entirely misread my post and turn it against me... but of course you did too, so perhaps that explains it.
So what you're saying is that since there are more of them posting who disagree with me (which is meaningless anyway because neither of us knows what the hundreds not posting think) that my opinion is invalid, and I should shut up and accept what you and they think?
How typical. You lambaste me for being arrogant but your unsupported suppositions are flying everywhere. Your comment I'd venture to say that you, more than any other single member, are what keeps him from actively participating here. is a perfect example. I happen to know for a fact that a person who talks to him on the phone regularly told me that he mentioned me to him - He had and has no idea who I am or what I do. But I am sorry I am the reason he doesn't talk nice to you.
I'm also sorry if I mis-catagorized what goes on here because I overlooked you and your 6 posts. But you and the rest of my detractors are free to put as big a smiley face on his post as you like. Unlike you I am not trying to control your opinion, or insult you for having it.
It's all about the music...
- I can only sat one thig (maybe more) - macmagman 17:31:40 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by Peter Gunn on January 20, 2011 at 11:40:47
If it wasn't for the GREAT help from everyone here mostly Mr. Gunn I would have never entered into the great world of Magnepan. I was a 30 yr owner of Dahlquist DQ 10's and always loved the open sound. When I decided after 30 yrs to make a change Maggie's came into the picture. I was advised to make sure that the Maggie's I went to were 3 way and had a true ribbon tweeter. This left me with the 3 series. I can't plunk down 5K for new 3.6's and was (well) advised the used market is sketchey at best mostly due to the delam and ribbon issues. After spending some time here I was confident that I could fix the short commings and bought a set of 3.3's. Sure enough it had a blown tweeter and the delam issue. After some hours a very small investment in money, I have a new love affair and my mistress is Maggie.
This is all due to and made possible by all of the GREAT help that I have here, otherwise I would NEVER had made the plunge. DON'T stop what your doing even if it means some people get mad, you have not posted anything but the absolute truth. And who knows if I do someday have 5K there is no doubt I will buy new 3.7's and that's due to the great people here. Now excuse me I need to finish my newly constructed stands.
Dan
- OOPs I ment to say, say one thing (maybe more) (nt) - macmagman 17:34:03 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: I can only sat one thig (maybe more) posted by macmagman on January 20, 2011 at 17:31:40
a
- OOPs I ment to say, say one thing (maybe more) (nt) - macmagman 17:34:03 01/20/11
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- I can only sat one thig (maybe more) - macmagman 17:31:40 01/20/11
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- RE: Wow - Satie 14:08:13 01/20/11
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- RE: Wow - IEaudiodude 07:24:11 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by Peter Gunn on January 20, 2011 at 07:02:09
"There are only 2 things any maggie needs done:
1 - a better XO
2 - a wooden frame"
That little statement speaks volumes. Do you really think that's it ? a statement like that says that ALL of us that aren't doing it that way are simply wasting our time and come on here to share ideas and tweaks that serve no purpose.
- RE: Wow - Peter Gunn 07:54:31 01/20/11
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- In Reply to: RE: Wow posted by IEaudiodude on January 20, 2011 at 07:24:11
If you have a car that can go 120 mph but it can't go over 30 mph it is safe to assume it has a problem.
If you fix it and it can go 120 mph, then that fix was the problem. If there is any other way to achieve 120 mph with it then that too is also a viable repair. In fact someone may find a way to make it do 140.
And no, I don't think that's it. In fact all of us would implement changes we think are better if we magically could alter our speakers any way we wanted - better magnets, different frame sizes or shapes, variations of the pole piece technology etc... some would fail miserably and some might be damn magic. Since when does progress stop?
That said there is only so much that can be done with it as it comes. I have my opinions, others have theirs.
In any event his statement was that in his opinion they are fine as is and no tweak is needed, not which tweak is best.
If asked what I think I'll say what I think, or once again am I not allowed my opinion, only yours?
If I have an opinion, I'm arrogant?
You have one, but you're not?
Am I only arrogant if I say my opinion?
Again however you're not for expressing yours.
And why do we come here, to be silent? I can be silent here home alone. I thought we came here to express opinions?
And why is it OK for you to twist this into being about me again? I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about what he said to US. His note wasn't talking to us, it was talking at us. If you didn't see it that way, fine, I respect that. I didn't see it that way however. So unless you're saying you have a right to express yourself I don't have, I am very unclear what your problem is.
It's all about the music...
- RE: Wow - Peter Gunn 07:54:31 01/20/11
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