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RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ...

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In Reply to: RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... posted by Webnick on January 19, 2011 at 15:28:48

Have you ever had people line up outside your office to tell you how you should design something that you know far better than they do how to design, because it's your job? People think they're being helpful, want to join in, but the truth you can't mention is that if they knew more than you about how to do your job, they would be sitting in your office instead of you. So give Magnepan some credit! Wendell says, "I don't recall a tweak that we haven't tried in some fashion," and I believe him, since they've been designing and building these speakers for more than 35 years now. And unlike us, they don't have the luxury of just "trying something." If they introduce a new product that doesn't sell, they risk their jobs.

That isn't to say that tweaks can't be useful, having done some myself I can vouch that they can. But when we make those tweaks for ourselves, we don't have to worry about cost and sales or even success, since if something doesn't work out, all we've lost is a weekend's work. And as Wendell points out, they have options we don't. They can change the size of the diaphragms, used different tensions and diaphragm and damping materials, tune the drivers differently, use different magnets. And, conversely, we have some options that they don't, options that could add too much to the cost of their product or appeal to too few prospective buyers.

Follow Ups:

RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - DavidJames 07:59:31 01/20/11 (8)
Regarding tweaks - I wonder how many have two sets of speakers and the environment to compare the before and after, in a "blind" manner?
- RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - josh358 08:19:59 01/20/11 (7)
  I've known audiophiles to do blind comparisons. It isn't easy to do with speakers, though, since they're difficult to hide and their sound is so dependent on their position in the room -- particularly planars. We've all switched between speakers at a dealers, and while you can tell a lot from that comparison, you never really know for sure until you get them home and set them up in your living room. I think that's one of the reasons that planars suffer at dealers, those of us who have owned them know how much their performance can be boosted with optimal placement, but at a dealers they rarely get that kind of attention.
  - RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - magiccarpetride 10:39:00 01/20/11 (6)
    "I think that's one of the reasons that planars suffer at dealers, those of us who have owned them know how much their performance can be boosted with optimal placement, but at a dealers they rarely get that kind of attention."
    
    Yeah, the dealer rep who was demoing 1.7s to me complained bitterly how they haven't been placed properly in the demo room. Wtf? Why doesn't he do it, then?
    - RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - josh358 10:47:28 01/20/11 (5)
      Maybe he wasn't given that option? One of the problems dealers have is that they have no way to demonstrate most of their speakers in optimal locations. They can take a few fancy products and give them entire rooms, but most have to sit on the shelf, literally or figuratively. Which does more harm to dipoles than to boxes. Another problem is that the somewhat funereal acoustics of these places are generally optimized for omnis. Dipoles are better in a more "normal" acoustic, indeed, it seems to me that they're ability to sound good without specialized room treatment is one of their positive points: if it has sufficient breathing space, a dipole will image beautifully in a regular living room.
      - RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - magiccarpetride 11:03:06 01/20/11 (4)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... posted by josh358 on January 20, 2011 at 10:47:28
        
        "Maybe he wasn't given that option? One of the problems dealers have is that they have no way to demonstrate most of their speakers in optimal locations. They can take a few fancy products and give them entire rooms, but most have to sit on the shelf, literally or figuratively. Which does more harm to dipoles than to boxes. Another problem is that the somewhat funereal acoustics of these places are generally optimized for omnis. Dipoles are better in a more "normal" acoustic, indeed, it seems to me that they're ability to sound good without specialized room treatment is one of their positive points: if it has sufficient breathing space, a dipole will image beautifully in a regular living room."
        
        That's the thing that stumped me -- he took me to the room dedicated to Maggies! 1.7s were all set for demoing, and he had a pair of 3.6s standing in the corner. This was the arrangement they had for months in their store. And yet, he was bitching how poorly are 1.7s placed in THEIR OWN DEDICATED SHOWROOM!
        
        My immediate thought was what's stopping him, the salesman, from placing them properly? I mean, they are already standing there, the lone speakers to be showcased.
        
        I hear you about the funeral-like showroom settings. That arrangement is indeed not optimal for Maggies. But again, we're talking about complete lack of enthusiasm on behalf of the salesforce to try and move those babies. they all seemed positively annoyed by being somehow 'tricked' into carrying Maggies on the floor.
        
        Go figure!
        
        RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - josh358 11:16:30 01/20/11 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... posted by magiccarpetride on January 20, 2011 at 11:03:06
        
        Knowing salesman, they were probably thinking about how much they'd be making if you were buying a pair of Wilsons. I guess you can't blame them, since their income depends on commissions, and it takes just as much effort to demo an inexpensive item as a costly one.
        
        RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - magiccarpetride 11:21:19 01/20/11 (2)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... posted by josh358 on January 20, 2011 at 11:16:30
        
        "Knowing salesman, they were probably thinking about how much they'd be making if you were buying a pair of Wilsons. I guess you can't blame them, since their income depends on commissions, and it takes just as much effort to demo an inexpensive item as a costly one."
        
        I didn't get the impression that I was stealing him away from the customers lining up to buy Wilsons, or anything else for that matter. The store was spookily empty, I was the only customer in there, and I did stay for a substantial length of time.
        
        Now, wouldn't you think that making a sale, even at a low commission, is better than making no sale that day?
        
        RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - josh358 15:05:30 01/20/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... posted by magiccarpetride on January 20, 2011 at 11:21:19
        
        Strange, isn't it? I wonder that whenever a salesman pulls that "Why are you interrupting my day" bit. Some kind of negative psychology sales technique, perhaps? Or perhaps just that snobby doorman attitude that some high end audio stores are known for?
        
        RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... - ahendler 13:20:28 01/20/11 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I think a useful comparison can be made to Linn ... posted by magiccarpetride on January 20, 2011 at 11:21:19
        
        My Maggie dealer in Tampa, Florida played 1.6's and 1.7's for me moving them in and out of the room and set them up really good. They both sounded excellent and I bought the 1.6's on the spot. The dealer was most accomodating
        Alan

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