• Maybe initially seems like a good idea. - grantv 12:16:16 01/19/11 (0)
  In Reply to: RE: Ho hum posted by Webnick on January 19, 2011 at 09:24:45

  But considered from their point of view...
  This site is mostly filled with people who modify their brand. "I'm taking what your successful company has done for 20+ years and changing it for the better." Even if they agreed that money aside, any and all mods were better, it wouldn't be prudent to agree to this on the Internet. And if they did, what next; which aftermarket capacitor is better Wendell? Most of us here know there are improvements that can be made to our Maggie's. Just like "X" brand car sites know their cars can be improved upon. Manufacturers have a budget and target buyers (we're the minority don't forget; the majority of Magnepan buyers are happy with them out of the box regardless if they know about possible modifications or not). So what are they going to do here if they're not answering questions about mods? Or QC?
  Add to that the amount of people here who regularly cut down Magnepan.... not exactly laying out the red carpet for Wendell.
  One benefit would be direct feedback, but I'm sure they're reading here frequently, so they get that anyway. Add dealer feedback, phone calls, etc and I think they know what their market wants and needs.
  I think they're doing just fine as is. And although it may seem odd to channel this message through somebody, it keeps them separated from us which is probably best from their business perspective.
  Just my humble opinion.
  
  
  

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• The answer is quite simple... - mdl 11:49:26 01/19/11 (1)
  In Reply to: RE: Ho hum posted by Webnick on January 19, 2011 at 09:24:45

  
  The answer is quite simple... there are people who hang out in forums, and people who get things done (said semi tongue in cheek :-).
  
  A lot of the online world is a colossal waste of time. From a manufacturers perspective, it is a hard world to participate in. Manners go out the window. Correctness often loses to bluster. It is simply not a good use of time. Besides, the mystery of what Magnepan is up to gives this forum countless hours of diversion! :-)
  

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  • RE: The answer is quite simple... - gtb75 12:04:06 01/19/11 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: The answer is quite simple... posted by mdl on January 19, 2011 at 11:49:26

    That is exactly the feedback I got from him when we talked... He just doesn't have the time to "troll" the forums like us enthusiasts do - and I get that. I'm a member of a few audio forms, so I volunteered to post this where I had an account. That being said, I spend most of my time reading these forums rather than posting... Everything that I've ever needed to know has already been asked several times by other members, so why waste everybody's time by posting the same question over again. Besides, I just don't see the point of getting involved in heated discussions (about anything) using a vehicle such as an internet forum. Everybody has opinions, but I have no desire to get in to flame wars - there's just no point.
    
    But I digress... After talking to him, Wendell is well aware that we exist (hence this message). I just don't think that he personally has the bandwidth to follow the banter on all of the various forums. Needless to say, he's really busy at the moment, so I volunteered to do this as a favor for him. I'm a thrilled customer who came from Thiel 3.6's before I got my MG 3.6's. I can't wait to hear what 3.7's sound like in person!
    
    

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• I agree, and worse - Peter Gunn 11:48:40 01/19/11 (12)
  In Reply to: RE: Ho hum posted by Webnick on January 19, 2011 at 09:24:45

  "I don't want the responsibility of having to actually talk to you, but this is what I have to say to you...."
  
  So bizarre on so many levels...
  
  On a side note this QR bass wiring is BAD news. It can't do bass well, and that's a fact. This is certainly going to put a premium on the older used 3's. Buy em now while you can.... or don't sell your sub, you're gonna need it.
  

  
  It's all about the music...
  
  

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  • Funny, you using the word "responsible" - The Heretic 23:23:04 01/21/11 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 11:48:40

    Funny how you stepped forward and took responsibility for the hack job you did on Varkdriver's 3.6s.
    

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  • RE: I agree, and worse - benie 01:26:43 01/20/11 (0)
    In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 11:48:40

    "On a side note this QR bass wiring is BAD news. It can't do bass well, and that's a fact."
    
    Have you heard them?
    

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  • RE: I agree, and worse - DrChaos 12:00:00 01/19/11 (9)
    In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 11:48:40

    "On a side note this QR bass wiring is BAD news. It can't do bass well, and that's a fact."
    
    That's something I wondered. With the conventional wire, some of the vertical runs in a bass section are doubled, presumably doubling the force in that location. They have freedom to choose which ones to double in combination with the mechanical properties.
    
    I don't see any obvious way to accomplish the same thing with foil.
    

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    • RE: I agree, and worse - josh358 16:24:18 01/19/11 (0)
      In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by DrChaos on January 19, 2011 at 12:00:00

      If you want to reduce the impedance, you can just split the run in two and parallel the segments, and if you want to increase it, all you have to do is use a thinner conductor. And if the objective is to increase thermal dissipation or better control the diaphragm, foil already does that for ou. So I'm not sure it's an issue. I believe though that in small quasi ribbon drivers where it is important to increase the impedance while maintaining coverage and reasonable strength they run multiple traces per magnet with the traces arranged next to one another. At least, that's my recollection of what the inside of the BG Neo drivers looks like.
      

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    • RE: I agree, and worse - Peter Gunn 12:46:04 01/19/11 (7)
      In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by DrChaos on January 19, 2011 at 12:00:00

      It could be done with the QR foil but it would require much stronger and MUCH costlier magnets. And since he just said they are in a life and death struggle to sell their product as is and that they consider "tweaking" a dangerous extreme that threatens the existance of the company it's not gonna happen.
      

      
      It's all about the music...
      
      

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      • RE: I agree, and worse - josh358 16:17:49 01/19/11 (4)
        In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 12:46:04

        I think I've read that neodynium magnets cost about 50% more. But I gather from something Wendell said somewhere that the problem is that they'd have to use mechanical magnet placement, which has to be costly for a company with small production runs of multiple products. There could also be considerations of physical strength, they might have to increase the strength of the whole pole assembly. And there are reliability questions as well, if neodynium magnets lose their coating they dissolve, this is a problem with the old Monsoons that use the Eminent drivers, the plating starts to come off the magnets and the diaphragms hit it and they buzz as if they were delaminating.
        
        Just read that the big new push-pull module from the BG people, which uses neodynium magnets and achieves 100 dB sensitivity (!) as a result, requires a 4-ton press for assembly.
        
        These things always look easier on paper . . .
        

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        • RE: I agree, and worse - grantv 07:26:03 01/20/11 (3)
          In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by josh358 on January 19, 2011 at 16:17:49

          In manufacturing a 4 ton press is very small. You know the little "bottle jacks" for $15 at your local Princess Auto, they usually run 10 tons minimum. Our break press here at my day job is 275 tons. Our punch press is 400 tons IIRC. So a 4 ton press to install magnets doesn't seem all that crazy to me.
          
          
          

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          • RE: I agree, and worse - josh358 08:23:49 01/20/11 (2)
            In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by grantv on January 20, 2011 at 07:26:03

            What I can't figure out is why they need a press at all. Shouldn't all the forces in a push-pull planar magnet assembly be attractive? Or is the press used to insure that the two halves don't slam together, meaning that the press is working as a pull, so to speak?
            

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            • Guessing only.... - grantv 08:40:52 01/20/11 (1)
              In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by josh358 on January 20, 2011 at 08:23:49

              I'd imagine the placement for the magnets is CNC cut into their panel. It's likely a "light press-fit" (perhaps with some epoxy to aid in holding them in place) hence the need for a press of some sort.
              
              
              

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              • RE: Guessing only.... - josh358 10:18:50 01/20/11 (0)
                In Reply to: RE: Guessing only.... posted by grantv on January 20, 2011 at 08:40:52

                Well, I'm definitely getting senile, I remembered it as a four-ton press but in fact it's 12:
                
                "As both Wisdom Series driver types incorporate a push-pull magnetic motor system, the brute force necessary to assemble a driver with opposing magnetic motors and pre-energized multiple magnets is indeed substantial – a twelve ton press is required."
                
                http://www.wisdomaudio.com/pdfs/Wisdom-LS3_LS4-Nov-23-2010-PR-FINAL.pdf
                
                Some interesting info in that press release, including the fact that they use the neodynium magnets only in the high frequency section.
                
                Here's a picture of one of the modules:
                
                http://www.stereophile.com/content/planar-wisdom
                

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      • RE: I agree, and worse - DrChaos 13:40:57 01/19/11 (1)
        In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by Peter Gunn on January 19, 2011 at 12:46:04

        
        Yeah, the price of neodymium magnets are going up like, oh a Chinese rocket?
        
        Apparently there's 1kg of neodymium in each Prius, and Toyota is Not Happy about the situation.
        

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        • RE: I agree, and worse - Satie 09:01:45 01/20/11 (0)
          In Reply to: RE: I agree, and worse posted by DrChaos on January 19, 2011 at 13:40:57

          Now Neodymium is doing great. My metals broker wanted to get me into neodymium ingot last year, but the vault operator didn't let him store it. But I told him that the standard precursor to metal would probably have a ready market. So he got into Neodymium oxide and is making a mint. The Chinese export restrictions are making for shortages. I did not take a stake in the trade, but held on to my irridium, which is used to process lithium for gadget batteries.
          
          
          

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