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RE: How many watts for 1.7's?

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thetintdoctor

In Reply to: RE: How many watts for 1.7's? posted by SnaggS on September 30, 2010 at 00:09:39

Hey there:

Don't want to sound like a broken record, but I actively bi-amp my 1.5QR's with 350 watts/ch into the woofer panels, 350 w/ch into the tweeters using Crown class D amps. No tweeter fuse and they are crossed over at 500hz, 24 db/octave. My average listening level is 90-95db, louder on some peaks. I have a relatively large room- 14.5ft x 35ft x 8ft.

I have an old Levinson ML11 that is sweet and tight, and sounds fantastic- as long as I keep the peak volume below ~90db. Even though this amp is a high current design, and 'doubles down' to 100w/ch at 4 ohms it definitely 'runs out of steam' on the music I like. IME, Maggies like higher power to sound their best.

You will find basically two points of view:
1. Maggies need high power.
2. They don't.

Depending on your needs, both are correct. Just be absolutely sure that the amp in question will fill YOUR needs, in YOUR ROOM, with YOUR MUSIC! For me, low power, be it tube or solid-state does not cut it.

Throwing $$$ at the problem won't necessarily get you where you want to go, either. Some here get great results from expensive equipment, some don't. They are both right.

Finally, I agree whole-heartedly that the W4S and Emotiva stuff works well, as I have been fortunate enough to use or own each. I can also state that the NEW Crown Class D Powerdrive series with 24db/octave crossovers built in work very well. They are highly configurable and are also relatively inexpensive. They do have fans though, however quiet- and some don't want that. In my installation, it is not an issue.

This is a big question with many possible answers. Hopefully we can point you in the right direction for you and your friend.

Follow Ups:

RE: How many watts for 1.7's? - simic 02:10:54 10/05/10 (11)
your bypassed the passive crossover in the MG1.5 and went active using the crossover in the crown amps?
- RE: How many watts for 1.7's? - thetintdoctor 17:42:17 10/07/10 (10)
  simic:
  
  Sorry I didn't see your post earlier. That's correct. You can use the internal x-over as HP, LP, or LP on ch1 & HP on ch2. The slope is a fixed 24db/oct, however. I'm still experimenting, but between 375hz and 500hz sounds very good. I realize the amps may not be optimum for 2-channel but they sound incredible for the money, and allowed me to try bi-amping.
  - RE: How many watts for 1.7's? - simic 23:24:30 10/07/10 (9)
    Which Crown amp are you using? xti series?
    
    Thought that amp can allow you to select different slopes...
    
    How did you bypass the internal passive crossover? Solder new wires between the binding post and the tabs connecting to the mylar wires?
    - RE: How many watts for 1.7's? - thetintdoctor 04:33:30 10/08/10 (8)
      I'm using 2 of the new Class D XLS-1000 Drivecore Series. The x-over freq is adjustable, not the slope. The slope on these is 24db/oct, fixed. The XTI may allow you to change the slopes, I'm not sure.
      
      In regards to the wiring, I ran my speaker cables thru the holes where the wires would normally go, and soldered them directly to the input terminals on the panel itself. I used the little set screws that normally tighten the speaker wire to the terminal as strain relief, instead. Gently tightened against the wire's insulation they keep the wire from slipping backwards and pulling on the panel terminals. I see no reason why one couldn't go from the tabs on the inside of the speaker connectors, but I wanted to leave my original passive x-over untouched, so I just bypassed it altogether. :-)
      - RE: How many watts for 1.7's? - simic 08:31:33 10/08/10 (7)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How many watts for 1.7's? posted by thetintdoctor on October 08, 2010 at 04:33:30
        
        did you have to cut the cloth (enlarge the hole) in order to see/have access to tabs going to the mylar wire?
        
        all the soldering work can be done by just unscrewing the plate that secures the binding post/fuse?
        
        hmmmm... i smell a mini project coming up. ;)
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - thetintdoctor 11:04:02 10/08/10 (6)
        
        In Reply to: RE: How many watts for 1.7's? posted by simic on October 08, 2010 at 08:31:33
        
        Well, on the 1.5 QRs the front speaker cloth is very easy to remove, as it's stretched between 2 plastic 'L' channels that in turn fit into a slot cut into the vertical stiles. Here is what mine look like:
        
        http://www.integracoustics.com/images/magnepan/mg15.jpg
        
        I wouldn't know about the way other's grille cloth "socks" are attached...
        
        BTW, I intend to re-configure the system such that I can experiment with 'Asymetric' x-over points. The internal x-overs (HP and LP) are locked to the same freq in the amp if you use the "x-over" mode to vertically bi-amp, which means if you pick 500hz, that is the LP freq on ch1 and the HP freq on ch2. I'll change it at some point to use one amp in stereo for the bass panels and one amp in stereo for the tweeters. This way you could choose say, 300hz LP on the bass amp, and 400hz HP on the tweeter amp. It'll be fun, anyway. If you try something like that, let me know!
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - simic 23:44:12 10/09/10 (5)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I smell a mini-project... posted by thetintdoctor on October 08, 2010 at 11:04:02
        
        to remove the front speaker cloth, i just need to remove the two side rails (secured by screws) and then i can remove the front cloth to access the crossover and tabs?
        
        I dont have to deal with 2 gazillion staples as mentioned by others?
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - esande 11:56:04 10/11/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I smell a mini-project... posted by simic on October 09, 2010 at 23:44:12
        
        Maybe not a gazillion staples. About 40 on the top layer and about 40 on the bottom layer were all I had to deal with on my SMGas. It seems like a lot more than it actually is. Putting them back together wasn't all that big a deal. I used fewer staples. Maybe 20 on the bottom layer and the same on the top. Not really an issue with a good staple gun. It all goes together quite easily.
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - thetintdoctor 05:37:11 10/10/10 (3)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I smell a mini-project... posted by simic on October 09, 2010 at 23:44:12
        
        Which speakers do you have?
        
        On my 1.5QRs, there was no need to remove the stiles (side rails). The cloth was held in place by 2 long plastic strips that were press-fit into an appx 1/8" wide groove cut into the front of each stile. All I had to do was carefully pry the plastic strips out (the cloth was glued to the plastic strips) and off comes the grille cloth. There were no staples, as on my 1.6es. I do not know about others like MMG's,etc.
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - josh358 08:30:03 10/10/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I smell a mini-project... posted by thetintdoctor on October 10, 2010 at 05:37:11
        
        MMG's and lots of others have socks that are stapled on the bottom and also covered by the side rails (if any) and the rear panel.
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - Simic 08:15:57 10/10/10 (1)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I smell a mini-project... posted by thetintdoctor on October 10, 2010 at 05:37:11
        
        I own the 1.5 for more than 10 years n never realized it's so easy to get the front cloth off. ;)
        
        always thought it's staple heaven from the guides posted here.
        
        I can feel a strip of something (plastic?) behind the cloth where it meets the front wood piece. U mean I can start prying from the top and it will pop out? Hmmmm....
        
        RE: I smell a mini-project... - thetintdoctor 17:19:51 10/10/10 (0)
        
        In Reply to: RE: I smell a mini-project... posted by Simic on October 10, 2010 at 08:15:57
        
        I only know that on mine there were no staples holding the front grille, only the 2 plastic pieces. Look at your spkrs from the top, and see if there is a plastic piece across the top holding the cloth on. It may be secured by 2 screws that go in thru the back... it's been so long since I dismantled mine I can't remember. just be careful if you try to take them apart. But as far as your comment, the plastic piece you are touching thru the grille cloth is a long, vertical plastic 'l' that fits into a channel cut into the stiles. I have the 1.6-style grille cloth that I ordered from Magnepan, and they're the ones who told me how to get the grille off. There may also be a plastic piece on the bottom- but the previous owner of my 1.5s had left it off, if there ever was one.
        
        I had a few minutes today to re-configure the system so the bass panels are driven from 1 amp, the tweeters from the other. The bass amp runs out of steam a little faster, but the change was worth it! I'm running 250hz LP and 500hz HP, both 24db/oct. The factory passive was 6db(just a series cap) for the tweet@2500hz, and 300hz, 12db for the bass panel. Things are really sounding great, but I'm getting the XLS2000 to run the bass panels now.
        
        Good Luck!

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