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In Reply to: I'm not sure how your gear was hooked up...you have one pair of 2-ch analog outputs from the player. posted by Methos on May 06, 2002 at 18:20:08:
The 6-ch analog outputs from the SACD player go into the 6-Ch analog inputs of the Preamp (TA-P9000ES) than loop back out to the AV Pre-Amp (TA-E9000ES) when the proper input is selected the DSD signal is routed through the Analog Pre and on the the amps, when you select By-Pass on the TA-P9K it sends the analog info the 2-ch inputs (DVD audio inputs) and out to the amps, thus DSD vs Non DSD since the AV Preamp will automatically down-convert and reprocess to PCM when it goes through the A/D converters onboard. you can ues any disc Multi or not just switch to 2-ch mode on the SACD player, then level match the 2 preamps which is very easy with a SPL meter.
Follow Ups:
...I would expect any signal to sound different(and considerably worse) when it undergoes an extra pair of A/D and D/A conversions. I can't speak for your system, but when I had my friends' CD only and SACD players hooked up to my SF Line 2, it was quite obvious which player we were listening to each trial. No one made any mistakes about which format we were hearing. We had to match levels with the volume control, so there was a minimal switching delay. The SACD sound was far more natural and less fatiguing, all of us were in agreement. Not a perfect test either, but that's the nature of subjective hobbies such as audio.
Thats the whole point the extra AD DA conversion removed the supposed glory of SACD by down-converting and changing the signal to PCM, nothing convoluted about it, when the analog preamp is bypassed the signal goes directly into the AV preamps dvd input, very simple and straight path, just as if there was no analog preamp in the path which they (Sony)tell you you must have to enjoy SACD. And truly 5 different peolpe that I had over not knowing what formats they were listening to, couldent tell a difference and nether could I. This test as simple as it can be. And can only be performed with this analog preamp as far as I know. and this preamp (TA-P9k) is one of the best and cleanest 6 ch analog preamps you can get, many SACD reviewers use this same pre.
I get what you're trying to say perfectly, it just conflicts with my own experience...I could claim the same think about you... : )
Just 2 (1.5 foot) more interconnects than you use to listen to SACD. Are you implying that these 2 extra interconnects make this setup convoluted or corrupted because of so much signal degradation, even if this is the case there should be an even bigger difference between the 2 signals, and surly I and the others would be able to hear an audible difference. If this not what your getting at, then you may have to explain further, cuz now I'm not getting it.
...signal path in my system, and we all heard the differences. I suppose we'll have to mark down one test on the negative side, and one on the positive side of the ledger. I can't explain what you heard, as I'm not familiar with any of your components. I listen to mine everyday though, and I have no problem distinguishing SACD from CD, even when I don't know visually which is playing.
But do you have the ability to instantly route (bypass the analog Pre) the signal into your AV preamps standard audio inputs and level match, if not, then we are performing two completely different tests. As I said, if you don't have a separate analog preamp with a Bypass function you can’t compare the DSD signal with a Down-Converted PCM without reconnecting to your AV Preamp and this takes to much time to properly compare. I can switch back and forth right in the middle of a note and the timbre and quality is a spot on match, seamless transition with no degradation of any kind, it's hard to discount such a result. And believe me I truly wanted to hear a difference. I'm not the slightest bit pleased knowing I didn't even need this $650 preamp just to enjoy the SACD format.
Every body else's Flawed (and unrevealing) test is to compare a SACD to a Redbook CD of the same, or even a Redbook layer to a SACD layer on a hybrid disc with seconds or even minutes between switching. This is not a fare (extremely flawed) comparison as the SACD tracks have been in most all cases re-mastered and or re-mixed, most likely with higher quality and newer equipment, so of coarse it will sound different, and most likely better, and it's impossible to remember the exact tonal characteristics of the musical note or details for even a few seconds. My findings can only point to a superior recording not a superior format (DSD 1 bit) that's not to say this is absolutely correct but there is some creditability to this theory as this test proved, far more credibility than some one just saying that; WOW this SACD sure does sound better than my old CD'sIt's been said many times, "The best upgrade is a good recording"
HowdyThe rest of us are idiots.
Get real.
-Ted
Has actually bothered to post their remarks about this comparison, but I doubt that I'm the only one who has happened onto this possibility, and I'm not sure that there are any other Preamps like the TA-P9K out there yet, but I have read many professional reviews on SACD's where the reviewer used this Preamp, but even if he did this test and found what I did, do you think he would actually print that, hell no, he is there for his advertisers not the public.Just because I happened onto some possible major misinformation concerning the quality difference of a new format doesn’t give you the right to imply that I'm making this up or that it's impossible for just me to happen onto this info when apparently no one else has. This IMO is good info for those who haven’t bought into the SACD hype yet and their likely to read something hear or a forum like this first if there into researching before buying, so just because you don't like what I found doesn’t mean you have to act like an ass and post comments like you have done.
And I didn't call anyone an idiot, you did. Although according to your attitude about this whole thread you might point that comment to yourself and just drop it. I thought you actually wanted to know and understand the test setup clearly and know the results so you might try something like this for your self, but obviously you wouldn’t believe the Truth if it sat on your head so thanks for wasting my time and go back to your world of fantasy and believe what you want, be a sheep. I’ll post a new thread later on so that others can hear what may be a whole industry scam aimed at getting people to buy unnecessary equipment and high priced software just to pray on the gullible Audiophiles (me included) striving to hear better produced recordings.
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