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For various reason having to do with not having a dedicated listening room, I'm wanting to do more headphone listening.Presently I have a pair of Sennheiser HD 555 which are quite agreeable but I'd hope for more resolution and air. Open-back phones are fine and, I think, my preference.
I've looked at these dynamic and planar models but am certainly open to suggestion ...
I'm also considering a new headphone amp. Presently I'm using an older Pro-Ject Head Box but it's really NOT up to the job. I could use my Topping DX7s, my main system DAC's headphone output which is MUCH better but for placement reasons I can't used it for both my main DAC and a headphone DAC/amp.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 07/30/19Follow Ups:
The Beyer DT-880 is a very nice and neutral headphone and should work well with the Atom hpa. I use it with a variety of amps, even with the good old O2 Amp and it works nicely. But it sure is not a headphone with the extra amount of airiness. A Beyer T90 provides a much bigger soundstage and that added airiness you asked for.
Generally an open backed headphone will be much better in that regard. And for Beyerdynamic headphones I can easily recommend the Beyerdynamic A20 hpa, which is not out of this world, price wise. Though for a start, the O2 proved quite nice for the T90 as well - and the Atom is supposed to be the improved succesor to the O2.
Beyond these phones and hpas, it's going to get expensive, i.e. Stax.
Music and Gear Lover.
For PC Audio, it is a big step up from my DT 235, which was certainly a bargain at it's $40 price tag.
Sound is totally different from my Sennheiser HD-600 (had these for quite a while now).
But, they are all good in their way. Impedance matching? I have thought about it very much, but I segregate headphones a bunch of ways:
Planar or Dynamic - sure, never owned planar though.
1/8 inch or 3.5 mm - I think that corresponds to impedance, roughtly, but anyone want to chime in?
I now have about eight different headphone circuits that I use. Damn, I'm trying to get a handle on them all.
I figured that much of the time I'd need some isolation for the rest of noise in our house so I got a closed-back pair: Beyerdynamic DT 770 Pro's.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
I decided to settle for a JDS Labs Atom amp for now. I chose it based on its super-positive review at Audio Science Review; (see link below).Depending on my liking for the Atom and my budget I might in future for the Massdrop THX AAA 789, Which also got a super-positive review at ASR.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 08/03/19 08/03/19 08/03/19
The Sennheiser HD 650 headphones are 300 ohm impedance headphones and they like an amp that can work well into that load. Most small, inexpensive amps do not work well with 300 ohm headphones.
A better choice would have been Schiit Valhalla or Bottle Head Crack .
If you notice, both are OTL tubed based amps. These are the type of amps that work best with 300 ohm headphones. There are SS amps that work well too but not usually the cheap ones.
If you notice your new headphones sound thin and lacking in the bass, you are experiencing a problem with the amp not being compatible with the 300 ohm headphones. The Schiit Valhalla is a good choice for those who don't want to mess with kits. The Valhalla is made in the USA and comes fully assembled and with a warranty.
The Bottle Head Crack has a good reputation with the Sennheiser but the Schiit audio product was not available when the Bottlehead amp was introduced.
I believe you will find that both amps are very good but IMO the edge goes to the Valhalla. You get much more for your money and you don't have to assemble a kit.
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
The JDS Labs Atom will drive both my new Sennheiser HD 650 and new Beyer DT 770 Pro's (250 ohm) to satisfactory levels, even on Low Gain setting.If I do get better amp, it will likely be a Massdrop THX AAA 789 which got an extremely positive review at Audio Science Review. OTOH the Schiit Valhalla got an extremely negative review from the same reviewer, (see link below). The Valhalla, according to ASR, puts out considerable less clean power in to 300 ohms than the JDS Atom.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 08/08/19 08/08/19
With quantitative evaluation of gear. Long ago I learned the bitter lesson that in spite of our advances in technology, we still don't know as much as we give ourselves credit for.I have no idea how old you are but years ago there was a magazine called Stereo Review and they stuck to the opinion that if there were not significant differences in how an amp measures it sounds the same.
I learned that this is far from the truth. It is not the truth because we still do not fully understand what makes our hearing pick up differences in the sound of different things. In short, we just don't know how to measure things that translate to how an amp sounds.
Of course there are those manufacturers who abuse this little factoid and insist crazy things make a difference. Maybe they are right but I tend to be a skeptic and lean on the side of dismissing crazy sounding claims.
There are things that do matter and whenever I see people who backup their opinions by showing a lot of graphs, I tend to walk away. I trust them as much as I trust the snake oil salesmen.
The sales people who I do trust are those who offer you a chance to sit down and listen. Or give you a warranty where you can return the product for any reason, as long as you are not satisfied.
I personally know people who use the Valhalla and that amp performs very well for them. I also know people who use the Bottlehead Crack and that little amp also performs very well.
If you hook up both to test gear they may not measure as well as a cheap sold state amp but how do the amps sound when compared to each other? We do not listen to graphs or tables of numbers, we listen to the amps themselves.
It is a throwback to quantitative vs qualitative measuring and we cannot get away from the fact that measuring things don't tell us everything. I suggest you sit down and listen to these amps before you accept any graph or table of numbers as some sort of absolute proof that the product is superior.
After all, like I said before, you don't listen to the graphs.
Ed
PS. BTW the original Valhalla was replaced by the Valhalla 2 quiet a while ago. The people who I know are using the Valhalla 2. The fact that the reviewer draws conclusions from a defunct product shows you how seriously you can take this person's point of view. He did mention it was an old product but then concludes by bad mouthing the product and calling it names. If the results were honestly represented he should have mentioned that the results were on a product that has been replaced and will not be the results you can expect. In short it is a misrepresentation.
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
Edits: 08/21/19 08/21/19
That's right, my experience goes all the way back to the day. Lots of people agreed that " Julian Hirsch never heard a component he didn't like ", (well at least he didn't report any). In other words a positive review wasn't take seriously by audiophiles, including me.Basically all you could take from a Hirsch review was that the design and performance of a product wasn't totally crap, but beyond that, not much. ASR's reviews are more in depth and I'd argue, relevant than Hirsch's back in the day. ASR's reviews are objective however but Amir doesn't claim that all components sound the same and he does often comment on the sound.
As for the Schiit Valhalla, I haven't heard it. Frankly if people like the Valhalla, perhaps they are just agreeing with Julian Hirsch that much distortion is inaudible and irrelevant. I don't have the opportunities to hear a series of devices before I make a purchase. In general if a component measures very will it will sound good, at least it will be clean, detailed, and transparent.
I personally value "clean, detailed, and transparent" well ahead of "warm, musical, and liquid" -- that's just me.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 08/22/19 08/22/19
But I immediately noticed he mentioned the fact that it is an old model. He then goes into detailed analysis on that old model and then draws conclusions on the product based on his tests. He also makes some comments that were not scientific at all.
The problem with all of this is that it is misleading. A reader could conclude that this review is some sort of conclusion that the Valhalla is some piece of crap and the cheap SS amp is some sort of great bargain.
The problem is he does not repeat that his conclusions are all on an old defunct product. If that were the case he would not draw the conclusions he drew and made the less than professional comments he made about the product.
It is not an honest review. I suspect its a personal opinion disguised as a scientific review. Maybe I missed it but I do not recall the part of the review where he listened to the amps in question and makes listening notes.
Without listening tests I find those sort of reviews as the kind of garbage that Stereo Review used to push out. It looks like science but how can it be science when it is a product that you listen to and no listening is done?
Odd science,
Ed
We don't shush around here!
Life is analog...digital is just samples thereof
See Amir's Valhalla 2 review at the link below; he admits that the revised model is better and may be recommended for high impedance 'phones if you like tube sound.
However he still doesn't feel that it is objectively the best choice, especially for low impedance 'phone, (like my Audio Technica's).
I'm very please at the moment with my JDS Atom amp. The sound is very cleaned, detailed, and dynamic. It is indeed a bargain IMHO.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Hi Ed, I agree completely. It appears that "the more things change, the more they stay the same" or in this case go backwards in time to those Stereo Review days. My system and ears tell me all I need.
The cost of products certainly has not stayed the same. I can't find anything worth listening to that's better than anything I have kept from even 10 years ago - and paid a reasonable price for. 50k amp? Several of mine are at least as good. I don't go anymore to the few dealers that exist, it's a time waster.
My reference, as is yours, is still vinyl.
I've order Sennheiser HD 650's. That is more precisely, Drop.com's Massdrop HD 6XX's which are rebrandede 650's. See link below ...
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Maybe the same for the amp.
Headphones are never really likely to be my main listening, but I plan to do more in consideration of other family members. Not over a grand for both 'phones and amp seems fair on my finances.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
I would have said the m1060s but hey I am a planar guy.
But now I am going to recommend an amp. Get the Hafler HA75 and don't look back.
Especially with the Senns you will appreciate the VOX options it has and the impedence options.
Just got mine and have been listening for the last few hours and out of the box its a winner and lets you tailor things a ton.
Reviews are of the old version and the new version replaces the feedback option with the impedence control up to 400ohms so you should be great with the 300ohm sens..
Plus the focus options to make it sound more like monitors than phones.
Tube too if you like rolling...
Only $649.
Cutting razor sounding violins
The Hafler HA75 looks great but it is a bit above my budget.
I have settled on an interim option plus am considering a longer term possibility -- see my latest post.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Oh i thought you said $1k for the cans and amp. $200 plus $649 is under 1k but maybe I missed something. My bad
Cutting razor sounding violins
If it's available somewhere for $650, that would make some difference.In any case I can afford to write off the JDS Atom at $100 if it's not good enough.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Edits: 08/03/19
Weird man I bought mine last week for $650
I bought mine from them on Amazon, but the price directly is the same too:
https://www.recordingstore.com/proddetail.php?prod=HA75
Cutting razor sounding violins
US$650 is lower that I was able to find without searching very hard, but I can't argue with this evidence. FWIW, I'm in Canada and the best in-country price I could find was C$1300.
Anyway $650 is stretching my US$400 budget though I did spend a little less on the 'phones than I might have.
Ultimately I'm not the keen on a tube amp.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Fair enough, I just recall the Senns reacting well to tubes. The Ha75 just has a tube input, its not exactly full tube.
They do have the cheaper and pure Solid state HA15 IIRC.
Oh and for some reason I thought you had a budget of 1k, and spent $200 on the headphones. Guess I missed it.
FWIW I have 4 headphone amps now and 2 in dacs. The mistake I made was not just paying for a solid one in the 1st place. Had I not wasted dough on the $100 amps, I could have spent $1k on the headphone amp (but would have spend the $650 on this one instead and saved $300)
EMotiva makes an inexpensive amp that can power everything including the senheisers.
Cutting razor sounding violins
And a bad-luck choice can set you back for a while.
I just ordered a new DAC to use with the 'phones, a Topping D50.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
Look for a used Stax SRM-1/Mk2 amp on eBay. The hobby has moved away from adaptor boxes. The newer SRM-353X looks good, but it's nearly $1000 USD.
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
Edits: 07/31/19
If you are interested in gaining air then I would not recommend any planar magnetics. The measurement for every model that I have seen shows a marked roll off in the treble. Even with the best. For example the new Mr. Speakers Ether 2 starts to roll off from 3kHz and is 10dB down by 10 kHz.
You have the DT880 Pro on your list. This has an impedance of 600 ohms and is very, very hard to drive for many headphone amps. The other two (non-Pro) variations ( 32 and 250 ohms respectively) should be easier loads. However on all there is a pronounced resonance at circa. 7kHz ( if I remember correctly)which makes the treble quite "zippy" on strings which puts this headphone out of play if you like classical music (I own a pair).
I am guessing from your selection the price point that you are interested in and my personal choice would be the venerable Sennheiser HD600 but with the cable for the HD650. The cables are interchangeable but you would need to buy the HD650 one as an extra.
Very helpful about the planars and especially the caution about the Beyerdynamics models -- I certainly wouldn't enjoy a "zippy" string sound.
The Sennheisers have jumped up a notch in my consideration.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
My SR-207 & 507 pairs are comfortable-enough to wear for a couple of hours. Weight & clamping force are light. The ladies, however, will not proposition you if you're seen in public while wearing either one.
How much are you budgeting for phones & an amp?
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
Have you considered electrostatic headphones? I didn't know what speed, transparency, and soundstage meant before I began using headstats. I now have two different pairs of Stax. I would recommend eBay so you can dip your toes. You could always flip the equipment there if you don"t like them. Forget the old complaints about an "etched treble" & "no bass". Bullshit.
Shosty's 14th sounds extra spooky in stats. ;}
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
Shostakovich's 14th is actually a song cycle, but not matter that, it's great music. Recently I downloaded the English lyrics.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
I've seen it in concert twice in CLE, once at Severance Hall with Thomas Quasthoff, and with a now-defunct chamber orchestra and John Shirley-Quirk. Very depressing, but what a powerful composition!
Agreed. It's an intimate chamber work.
"'Cause when love is gone, there's always justice./And when justice is gone, there's always force./And when force is gone, there's always Mom. Hi Mom!" Laurie Anderson, "O Superman (For Massenet)"
In the remote passed I owned, first, Koss Electrostatics, and more recently, Stax 'stats. Both were inherently good sounding though both required regular power amp to drive them -- unfortunately the power amps weren't really up to the task.
The Koss, (circa 1970), were extremely heavy and skull crushing; any new headphones I get are going to need to be very comfortable.
I love the music of Dmitri Shostakovich ...
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