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In Reply to: RE: Popori Electrostats. Too bad about the price :( posted by Jon L on April 25, 2025 at 00:58:51
of the eight or nine foot Sound Labs with "Ultimate" tubular steel frames. Tough competition. Made in Utah.
Follow Ups:
Hey, it IS tough to make an ESS panel even half that height without something wrong with it somewhere.
Clearly they have the technique figured out and it leaves one with a feeling of "I want a pair".
has been working at it since 1978! I've had the good fortune to spend time with him both in Chicago at a show and his modest production facility in Utah.
Unlike other stats, they also have a relatively tame impedance curve using a pair of carefully blended toroidal transformers. Not the usual Scream Machine roller coaster curve usually seen like the wicked Dayton-Wrights of yore that got me hooked back in the 70s. :)
I noticed that his Soundlabs biog page calls him as Dr. West, Ph.D.
He should limit himself to only one appellation.
He spent time and effort to achieve his appellation, you were just born the son of the 12th to get yours.
Agreed he earned it, though he only gets to use it once. You are either Dr. West or Roger West, Ph.D. Coincidentally, this topic came up in a recent repeat of 'Car Talk' and I agree with Tom & Ray that 'Dr' should be reserved for the medical profession. I've worked with many technical Ph.Ds over the years, probably more than I realize, as none ever went by 'Dr' though a few had Ph.D on their business cards, but not many. Even if Roger West was a medical doctor with a doctorate in philosophy that double appleation is not correct though Roger West, MD, Ph.D might apply.As to my moniker, astute readers probably know I am not really noble (though I like to think so in mind and deed). And we never, ever talk about the 12th Duke of Wymbourne.
Edits: 04/29/25 04/29/25 04/29/25 04/29/25 04/29/25
I do give due respect to the medical Dr over other doctorates
Your first picture makes him look a bit like a Hobbit
The upper section of the original hybrid from nearly fifty years ago was under four feet tall.Even six footers like Brent need some assistance to heat treat the current nine foot tall U945s. My room fits only the seven foot tall version. I'm 5'6". :)
Edits: 04/25/25
Without the big rise in the bass, which is why solid state amps struggle to make power on the Sound Labs. You need about 4x more solid state power than a tube amp on that speaker as a result (tubes don't lose as much power driving higher impedances like 30 Ohms).
The Popori is also more efficient. The speakers at AXPONA are rated 91dB; if you understand that with any planar you need to add 6dB to that number to get something more realistic (since at 1 meter a lot of the sound the planar makes isn't picked up by the microphone). So you don't need a lot of power to drive the Poporis.
I should have mentioned that the superb sound in this room was obviously also due to the excellent Atma-Sphere electronics.
Keep in mind the electrostatic driver itself looks like a capacitance as a load and is a Voltage device where a constant Voltage vs frequency produces a flat response.
Also, to get an accurate 1W1M measurement (that lets you estimate the SPL at another distance), one must be (the microphone that is) several times the speakers largest dimension. At work, to make it simple, with big speakers we measure at 10 meters and 28.3 volts.
This is -20dB down from the distance and driven at +20dB power. The result is a usable 1W1M measurement that can be accurately scaled in installations.
The older and maybe modern SS linear amplifiers could have issues with Electrostatic drivers, they are a harder load because they are a capacitive load, not resistive, that stresses the output "safe area" where the amplifier's protection can kick in and keeping it from producing the waveshape.
Tube amps (the tubes) have a much more fuzzy "thou shalt not go past here" behavior and have no such SOA instant death issues like the old days with SS.
Class D, not having safe operating area concerns would not have that particular issue.
I don't understand the logic that a high impedance makes a speaker harder to drive either (?)Regarding safe area operation into a capacitive load, ESL 57s are famed for dipping down into the low ohms in the treble region but the musical power spectrum also falls pretty dramatically too so you're never going to have to drive a large voltage into that low impedance.
Edits: 04/25/25
Kindly share the measured curve.
Indeed, SLs mate well with my long term companions, VTL MB-450s. Also, I appreciate the consistent directivity of true full range designs and the lack of beaming characteristic of most flat panel stats.
I saw the curve somewhere online recently. It was flat save for a fairly narrow peak in the middle of the audio band. I'll see if I can dig it up.
Anybody know what Brian is up to these days?
I looked but was unable to find anything.
A pair of MA-2s drove Brian Walsh's pair rather nicely although he tended to clip them. :)
It must have been pretty loud!
I get comfortably loud with 300 vs 220 watts on mine, but really need double that for (merely seconds of) pieces like Rite of Spring .
Then its likely on a Sound Lab its not as much power as you think, due to the impedance curve at low frequencies.
So as a general rule of thumb, divide by 4 to get the solid state power on them. So if you have a 400 Watt (into 8 Ohms) solid state amp, its able to make about 100 Watts on this account.
So (IME) you really need a 600-800 Watt solid state amp to make the Sound Labs really fly.
'So as a general rule of thumb, divide by 4 to get the solid state power on them. So if you have a 400 Watt (into 8 Ohms) solid state amp, its able to make about 100 Watts on this account.'
Exactly. The reason an OTL amp is a very good match with electrostats.
Someone else mentioned your recent absence.
There is a page for Dr. McCollum over at planar about a concern over 63 vs 57 panels. :)
So (IME) you really need a 600-800 Watt solid state amp to make the Sound Labs really fly.Which shouldn't be a budgetary problem for those with $60k speakers. :)
Nearly twenty years ago, first gen JC-1 amps did just fine with M945s at a meeting in Chicago. Current version has more mojo!
Edits: 04/25/25
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