 
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
|
|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
In Reply to: occ-SIM-uh-run posted by John Marks on June 22, 2003 at 09:10:03:
Do you think you could tell whether a system cost over $10,000 or under $1000 by just listening to it without seeing it? How long would you have to listen before you were reasonably certain that your answer was accurate? What odds would you lay?
Follow Ups:
You can devise a test that may make a $1,000 speaker sound as good as a $10,000 speaker, if you pick the music.If I pick the music, I can tell a lot more, and given the realities of physics and economics, I have 80% confidence factor that any system I say gets the particular job done, will be near $10,000.
I never claimed to be able to tell whether "a system" cost over $10,000 or under $1,000.
Truth be told, at HE 2003 the Usher "Sonus Faber Emulation" speakers at $1,000 a pair to my ears reproduced mezzo-soprano and classical guitar at modest but real-world volume levels with more timbral accuracy and timing information than did the big Vandersteens, which I think are near $10,000. So I am not making any general claims.
And don't even draw solid conclusions from that: the Usher room was tweaked with RPG Skylines and the speakers were well away from the walls; the Vandersteens were too big for the small room they were in.
But it would only take me 60 seconds to tell whether a system could fill the room with Brahms' German Requiem in the Telarc Shaw recording, including the organ pedals, with good imaging and soundstage size and lack of excess sibilants on the choral entry.
And, you are shocked--shocked--to learn that in my experience, the least expensive system that can do that consists of Shahinian Obelisks, a Plinius 8200, and a Marantz SA-14. Add wires and you are right at $10,000.
Perhaps you can cut a corner here or there, but this precise test case is one I worked on for 18 months while at TAS, and I am 95% confident that I can tell whether the German Requiem is more there than not, and 80% confident that that can't be done for much less than $10,000 all-in.
But I cheerfully admit that on test material with limited dynamic range, loudness, and image size, such as the aforementioned mezzo and guitar disc, a smaller less expensive speaker with a good midrange will sound better than a larger more ambitious speaker that costs a lot more but does not get the midrange right. But put Mahler on the shoebox, and the limitations become apparent.
So, here's a friendly challenge: spec out a system that can deliver most of what is in the first three minutes of the Telarc Shaw German Requiem, that will sound as good as the Obelisk/8200/SA-14 system I mention above, and cost significantly less, and tell us all about it.
Cordially,
John
John:Just my guess, but I think Norm was trying to get you to admit that the correlation between price and performance IS fallible. God knows, I have heard many high priced speakers that were nauseatingly bad.
Cheers,
Dan
Sure, even when you are talking about good speakers, the diminishing returns set in at some point.And if you are talking about triumphs of ideology over experience and common sense, you can get speakers that throw a remarkably huge soundstage, and that can pressurinze the room as though there really was an organ right over __there__, but the upper midrange just sounds off, and that can set you back $75,000.
My point was that you __cannot__ do justice to a work that involves full orchestra, 32' organ pedals, 120 singers plus two soloists, with a bookshelf loudspeaker that costs under $1000.
Musical sound is organized logarithmically. Go down one octave--eight notes--and you double the wavelength being propagated. For every octave you go down, the speaker has to be twice as big, or you have to resort to tradeoffs like ports, with their associated issues of resonances and impedence dips. There is no free lunch.
The least expensive speakers I have found that can do justice to the Telarc Shaw German Requiem are the Shahinian Obelisks, now at $4,000/pr.
I'd love to hear other nominations!!!!!
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors:
Top of Page ]
[ Contact Us ]
[ Support/Wish List ]
[ Copyright © 2024, Audio Asylum, all rights reserved ]
