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24.148.234.43
Don't blast me if I'm off my rocker!
Partial stuff I have to use for a music system (I will have to buy the iPod):
Room #1: iMac in a small room we use as an office.
Room #2: Tube power amp and speakers (no source or preamp) in a spare bedroom that we use as a reading room (no bed just rocking chairs).
Can I burn my CDs onto the iMac (Rm #1), copy some of them to an iPod, then plug the iPod into the tube power amp (Rm #2) for reasonably fine sound through the speakers?
Will the sound from the iPod be as good as say a $500 CD player?
Can I do this w/o a DAC and just use the iPod's analogue output?
Thanks everyone!
Mike
Follow Ups:
Zune, Sansa clip or others?
Thanks for the great advice. I'm getting closer to making this a reality.
Now what dock with volume control and remote is a good budget choice to feed my AES SuperAmp MkII tube power amp? I'm looking at the "Pro-Ject Dock Box V" Active iPodŽ docking station with variable output and remote control. Any comments on this instead of the Wadia? I can't find out any info on this unit and if it meet everyones criteria who posted here. I'm not sure of this $199 dock's analogue output quality, but it looks like it will be prefect for me.
Any thoughts on this or other docks w/volume and remote?
Mike
That unit does a lot more than just connect to the stereo though, as it has a USB input meant for connecting to the computer. You can find others that just have the remote control of the iPod itself. A search of Amazon will turn up more than you want to know about. Onkyo and Kensington have them for under $100, the Apple Store has theirs for $49, and there are a gazillion cheaper onesI have no idea which ones sound the best however. Try specialist sites like iLounge to see if you can get more info
Edits: 09/30/09
Ok, sounds good to try a cheaper dock for now.
If I get the Apple universal dock will the internal volume control of the iPod control the volume thru the 30 pin connection to the dock so I have volume control out of the dock's analogue connection? Or do I need to get a dock that has its owm remote and volume control?
Mike
AFAIK you need a dock with volume control, as the dock connector bypasses the internal volume control.
Gen 5 or Gen 5.5 iPod with Video. It's still the best sounding iPod that you can get. If Dave Wilson could fool "audiophiles" with it, then Apple had to do something right with these models. Use Apple Lossless, .aif or .wav for the file format and you will be happy.
Dave Wilson (of Wilson Audio) and his CES "stunt":
"Finally, there was an incredible demo at Dave Wilson's private suite in the Mirage for his dealers where he put a B&W 800 Signature ($21K) pair of speakers up against his Sophias ($11K). The B&W were driven by a Krell 700 Mcx ($8K) amp and the Sophias driven by a $1000 Parasound amp. Front end was Krell kps 25s into Nagra. The Sophia system by everyone's opinion was that the Sophia was simply much better. At the end of the demo he took it one step further by unveiling the front end of the Sophia which NOT driven by the Krell Kps25s as was the B&W but rather by an iPOD using a .wavfile. Everyone there was blown away by this." .
I will just second the notion that sound from an IPOD (6G 120GB Classic) through the headphone jack into my SET amps and horns sounded pretty bad. Not listenable for the long term and only tolerable as quiet background music. I will have to try running the dock output to see if it enough of an improvement.
I would like to know your opinion w/ a dock. What dock would you recommend w/ a volume control. The Wadia looks nice, but the Pro-ject V has a full featured remote and is only $199.
Mike
oh sorry.. didnt read your post carefully enough about not having a pre.
no- the sound out of headphone-out of ipod sucks. you will need a dock/pre/integrated.
You can easily copy your cd's into your imac and then onto an ipod.
However, I do not think you will get "reasonably fine sound" from an ipod, no matter what file format you chose. Even when using wav files, I have found the ipod I tried (30mb Ipod Video) to be lacking in bass, warmth and dynamics. With MP3 files, I found the sound to be unlistenable. Your tube amp may help with some of this, but only you can tell if it would help enough. If you're only interested in background music, it might work for you. I would try and borrow an ipod to experiment with before buying one, if you can.
An new ipod will probably cost at least $250. As an alternative, I would suggest investigating a Denon 1940ci DVD player or a Marantz DV4001, either of which can be bought for under $100 and a Luminous Audio Passive Preamp for $125. You might be able to find other preamp options for a little less money.
My experience is exactly the opposite - using the dock connector and a good cable into the analog inputs of the preamp, I get "reasonably fine sound" indeed, equal to my Musical Fidelity A3.2 CD player. I also have several friends using the Wadia dock with very good results.
Your experience sound encouraging. What dock and cable are you using? I will need a dock w/ variable output as I will be feeding a tube power amp.
The Pro-ject iPod Dock V has a variable output, full featured remote and a cheap price of $199. Any experience with this one?
Mike
The important thing is that the signal is taken from the dock connector, as that bypasses the internal opamp and volume control. I just use the $40 Apple dock, and run it into my preamp because that has remote control for volume and I don't care about controlling the iPod itself (I'm an album listener, not song-by-song)
Using a cable like the one shown by vad69 will also do the same thing. Lots or people make them. you can also get a tiny connector called a SendStation Pocket Dock that allows you to plug in a minijack to RCA cable
The fancier docks mentioned in this thread allow remote control of the iPod itself, which may be important to some users. But they all just take the analog signal from the dock connector
"SendStation Pocket Dock that allows you to plug in a minijack to RCA cable"
If I get the mentioned plug will the iPods internal volume control operate the analogue signal coming out of the 30 pin connection to the SendStation?
Mike
i agree. you should not be taking the sound from the headphone jack.
i dont even use a dock. i use these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Nyko-Ipod-Stereo-Link-Cable-6Ft-Highest-Quality-NEW_W0QQitemZ270460659823QQcmdZViewItemQQptZOther_MP3_Player_Accessories?hash=item3ef8b6286f&_trksid=p4999.c0.m14
D/A conversion still happens in the ipod, but i'm getting line-out signal (as opposed to the signal that's going through ipod's crappy volume op-amp).
the difference is huge! and i am very happy with the sound.
If I get the mentioned Nyko iPod stereo link will the iPods intenal volume control the output thru the 30 pin connection thru the Nyko?
Mike
no. thats why i said that thing about you not having a pre-amp.
i think you will need a dock. dock is basically either a bulkier version of this cable with volume control or it takes digital out and does D/A conversion also.
I was using the headphone jack with a radio shack adapter and a neutral sounding pair of interconnects. I guess the problem is the headphone jack. I will have to try and borrow a dock.
Your suggestion will work just fine, if you do two things: rip your CDs using Apple Lossless, and use a simple dock or a cable from the dock connector (on the bottom of the iPod) *not* the headphone jack to hook up to your amplifier.
Another way to go is to stream your music wirelessly from you iMac to the bedroom system. iTunes is easy to set up for multiple speakers. All you need is an Airport Express to connect to your amplifier using an analog cable with a minjack at one end and RCAs at the other. This will get you going for $99 (less if you buy the AE second hand).
For added convenience, get an iPod Touch and use the free app "Remote" to control the iMac from the bedroom. When (if) you're ready to upgrade, add a DAC with an optical input and swap the analog cable from the AE to a Toslink cable.
The reasons for these recommendations have been covered here many times, it won't take long to find more info if you search
I've read from an Audiogon member who uses this setup that the airport express' sound quality is only good enough for background music. Is this not true?
Mike
If the analog output is used, then the internal DAC in the AE processes the signal and sends it to the analog inputs of an amp or preamp. That internal DAC is far from state of the art, but it is not bad either, probably equal to consumer grade internal sound cards
However the AE also has an optical output that can feed a separate DAC. Then the sound quality is determined by the DAC. I'm using the LiTe Dac-AH and am perfectly happy with this setup
1) What simple dock and how do I control volume as I only have a power amp?
2) I can't figure out how to use the airport express (or extreme) and iPod touch from the Apple site. Can you give me more details on how to?
Mike
1) I also missed the part about having only a power amp. You would need a dock with a volume control. I have no experience with these, sorry. But there are lots of them out there
2) The basics go like this. The AE goes near your stereo system and connects via a minjack to RCA cable into your power amp, and connects to your iMac wirelessly. You configure the AE through the Airport Utility in network settings. (Note that if your computer is close enough to the bedroom, you do not need a base station) You can control playback from the computer, but it is really cool to do so using Remote on the Touch/iPhone. There is more info at the link. Also search for posts by Abe Collins who inspired me to go the same route
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