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In Reply to: Do a search!!! posted by longtimequadowner on January 05, 2004 at 11:19:22:
I made a resolution to not reply to posters clearly needing medication, especially those crusading for an empty cause, but it looks like I'll break that one too, but only if you promise to settle down a bit, take a few deep breaths and go pet a puppy....ok then.Speakers in question are full range Von Schweikert VR3's with upgrades, 87dB, 6ohm nominal, played at my desired, LOUD listening levels in a 24x18x12 room. The Panny quits in my setup. It compresses and clips at moderate levels, dies at a level that the HCA-2, eVo2 and countless other amps I have owned didn't even flinch at, just swelled with power. I'm a power junky and a bass head, very demanding music the bulk of what I listen to. PC used was the same for both, either a PS Audio Lab, a DIY or a stock Rubber 14ga cable. I try not to make fun of the "magic cable" theorists anymore, but must say I'm pretty unamused by all the "add this magic _______(fill in the blank with 'tube,' 'cable,' 'isolation device' 'etc.' and then all will be perfect" posts, they don't phase me at all--Too much experience to the contrary for that BS.
See the review I posted on the PS Audio amp or the Marantz DV8400 to see what my system and musical tastes consist of, both of which are readily available to you, although my system is constantly changing and propably not the same as listed in the reviews.... If that doesn't answer your questions, shoot away. The reason that I didn't write a full review of the Panny is that I don't feel it to be worth my time for the many reasons stated originally, just as I'm feeling it wasn't worth my time to post to this thread at all right now....
PS. I hadn't "answered" sooner because, frankly, I couldn't decipher what the heck was in your previous post, and I'm still not sure that I understood the above post very well, either, so, by all means, please keep helping Fiddler and myself with our "reading" skills....
Follow Ups:
Why didn't you say all that in the first place? Still a little short on details as to your more sweeping conclusions that are at odds with so, so many other posters (owners), but it's a start. If the panny just all out "quit" for your needs and in your setup, aren't your conclusions a little sweeping?"played at my desired, LOUD listening levels" is not on my list of needs, so there's one major difference. "I'm a power junky and a bass head" - ok, that's important to know. I mean, if the panny just all out quit for your needs, did you really get a fair shake at what it can do? Not everyone has to drive inefficient speakers to deafening levels. How do you think it would sound with a pair of Spendor SP100's at 90db? And what about the magnepan, dynaudio, B & W 801 owners that are happy? I don't think claiming 90db+ only for the panasonic was anywhere near justified on the basis of this one trial, so much at odds is it with so many other posters, and so sweeping is it in condemnation. The PS audio had more balls! No surprise!
As for 'tube,' 'cable,' 'isolation device' 'etc.' - I'm with you on those, don't have any of them, save for the Xstream and some power conditioning that I'm not currently using.
Needing medication, are you kidding? Have you read your own posts? You even apologized for one, while doing the same thing over.
Honestly dude, I'm just trying to be balanced and constructive and once you've read all my posts you feel otherwise, please post the phrases and comments for me. You won't find any rant from me like the angry one you made. But I am getting tired of this.
Finally, as you can see I've invited another PS Audio poster to my home in Vancouver for a proper test, possibly over a few days, with my Quad 989's. If you lived in Vancouver you too would be cordially invited to my home for the PS vs Panny side by side test - honest you would, I'm not kidding. You could bring your favorite reference recordings, whatever accessories you like, and have-at my 989's. I'm looking forward to it, me - my panny XR25 - and my Xstream Statement will be there with bells on.
I have no doubt the PS Audio will put me in a liplock, and I'm sure you'd love to be there to see it. However I think my XR25 (with 8 weeks use now) and Xstream Statement will prove a more worthy competitor than you might think - I listen to it hours per day, and have no worries.
If you're ever a-travellin through Vancouver, page me. I'm a happy music lover, and easy to get along with. And a few hours with Quad 989's is always fun - who knows, by then I may own the PS if the first showdown proves that successful - according to Sam Tellig, the HCA is heaven on the 989's. We'll see!
**PS Audio Lab, a DIY or a stock Rubber 14ga cable. I try not to make fun of the "magic cable" theorists anymore, but must say I'm pretty unamused by all the "add this magic _______(fill in the blank with 'tube,' 'cable,' 'isolation device' 'etc.' and then all will be perfect" posts, they don't phase me at all--Too much experience to the contrary for that BS.**What were the differences you heard with different power cords or are you saying you didn't hear any differences with different cords?
Sorry, I don't like to review cables, as the changes they make, to my ears, are always most trivial, especially given the price involved. Differences exist, but I've rarely found myself using phrases like 'clearly better and clearly worse' when I evaluate PC's, because everytime I do I have a friend switch cables on me when not looking and they stump me most of the time, in spite of my convictions. I ultimately choose the cheaper cable and live happily with it....Sorry, I'm not a cable freak, don't believe the cost is justified for "tone controls" and prefer to stick to one well made type of cable and work around it.Regarding the Panny, the PC's "upgrades" in general improved the bass noticabley as others indicate, added a trace more detail and maybe extended the dynamic range, but nothing to get excited about and difference where small between them. Sorry, I'll NEVER be one to post more then a few sentences on cables, they just don't matter to my ears, thankfully, just as those who can't hear or can't justify the difference between the $300 panny and thousands of dollars of seperates should be thankful....FWIW, I actually just recently cut $1400 worth of cabling out of my main system (the though of having that much money in cables shook me as I sat thinking of it one day), and you know what, I don't miss them at all, rather, I put that money in better components and now have clearly improved sound, just less jewlery.
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