Posted by wazoo (A) on March 25, 2008 at 19:49:54

In Reply to: RE: Peter Gunn and the World of Tomorrow posted by TheGoodCaptain on March 24, 2008 at 06:30:23

Well, this thread sure has been unpleasant! I wish all this acrimony (but none of the people) would just go away – and it does seem to be coming from so many directions. Folks, PG can be brash and audacious, but he has ‘stumbled’ into one hell of an upgrade design (and he does such beautiful work). Before he came under fire, his posts were entertaining and enlightening – if a little risqué at times. Davey is not an idiot and his opinions have merit – regardless of what he has or has not experienced. Many of us speculate, and we are sometimes vehement in the defense of our speculations! Forums like this work best when there are dissenting opinions (should we all want vanilla?); it would just be nice if we could all maintain civility whilst we argue. I’m not pointing any fingers and I don’t want to – that’s one of the things we need to stop doing.

A number of interesting things came out in this thread. One of which is that Davey framed an MMG in oak and apparently performed measurements that substantiate PG’s claims of hardwood’s superiority over MDF as a frame material. I think that is a big deal although I already knew what a difference hardwood frames make, having framed my own. With regard to the crossover, I am not surprised Davey wasn’t sold – he’s already voiced his opinion about the nearly flat response of the series XO PG has specified. I do wonder, however, if he constructed the XO precisely as it was specified – the selected parts matter and just matching the values doesn’t build the same XO (not trying to start another argument). Besides, to some degree, this is a matter of taste. To me PG’s XO works splendidly – Davey had already found what he liked, and it is different. Neither invalidates the other – we do not live in a binary universe.

The discussions about baffle size proceed from a solid foundation in physics, but assume that the new frames are meaningfully larger – they aren’t (remember, PG’s upgraded speaker still fits in Magnepan’s shipping carton – cover it with a sock and it wouldn’t look that different). This has been proffered as the explanation for more bass output – I don’t know, but I doubt it. It has also been implied that the increase in bass is merely psychological (psychoacoustic). I infer that their point is since our brains reconstruct fundamentals from overtones, it follows that if the quantity and quality of the low order harmonics present in the music are increased, we will respond by ‘hearing’ more bass. In my view, such an argument carries a great deal of weight (but this is only my opinion). Of course, there is also the statement that there truly *is* more and deeper bass issuing from the modded speakers – if there’s one thing that’s hard to do, it’s knowing where to draw that line of incredulity. This forum has taught me not to be too hasty in discounting the improbable – sideways speakers indeed! Still, being a pragmatist, I went in a different direction.

That someone might actually one-up PG with an even more improved design was suggested in this thread. It’s already happened (I’m only half kidding) – I did it! Some observed that PG gave me a hard time because I diverged from his design in the building of my own frames – I built hybrids. I was never offended or put-off in any way by anything he directed at me, either on this forum or in private (emails and a phone call). I simply didn’t see myself being happy with MMGs sans subwoofers, so I combined them – I have MMGs because of the space in which my speakers are located and that same lack of space would make it impossible to cram in a pair (actually a trio) of subwoofers. Does this really make my design better? Nah, it’s just better for *my* needs. Mine certainly don’t stand up to his in terms of craftsmanship – the difference between what a general handyman can do and what a joiner does.

Speaking to the value of the Magnestand mods, there is much to consider. If your aesthetic values run contrary to the 'picture frame' appearance, then you should pass on them. Perhaps that's a niche which needs to be filled, and maybe someone will fill it; if you don't like what PG is doing, do something different. What matters is the physical change; the way it's clothed is irrelevant - but don't expect a joiner who loves wood (a good craftsman does have a special fondness for the material with which he works) to hide it. Besides, stain and sock color could easily reduce the salience of that effect.

Anyone who truly feels that this mod is overpriced needs to build a pair. The material costs easily consume a third of the price, but you can completely forget them and still realize a good return on your investment. There is a great deal of labor involved in building a set of frames that don't look as utilitarian as their function. Much of it is very tedious, and as the hours mount so does the opportunity to turn it all into scrap! Finishing them is fun too - rubbing stain on, then wiping off, then repeating until the color is right. After that I applied seven coats of oil with light sanding (a day later) between each - I'm not sure what PG does, but he definitely does something. After all of that, you get to mount the panels in the frames - with screws that come within 1/64" of penetrating the front of the frames (talk about unnerving). The point of this is to emphasize that the price is actually quite low for what goes into making them.

As far as justifying the spending of $2000 on a $550 pair of speakers, just remember *why* they only cost $550. All of that gets thrown away while a panel that is only different from a 1.6 in its smaller stature is all that remains. It's an understandable viewpoint, but I think the opinion that the MMG is not worth such an expenditure reveals a gross underestimation of the performance capability of Magnepan's little jewel.

Sorry that I got carried away with this post. I kept telling myself to stay out of it, but lost control of my fingers. Once they got away from me, they just started running!

"Jazz is not dead - it just smells funny" FZ♬