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RE: What's that supposed to mean?

67.189.206.242

In Reply to: RE: What's that supposed to mean? posted by Davey on March 24, 2008 at 15:45:48

"There's virtually no way Davey's mods sounded like the Gunned speakers." Really? How close do you think they are? 50%? 10%? 99%?>>

We don't know, but it's unlikely you have any valid point here regarding Gunned Magnepans. You've done your own tweaks. That's great. But don't act like the Gunn mods are something your familiar with 1st hand. You're in NO position to judge them at all.

<<>>

Sure. But what does that have to do with anything. Still not sure what your beef is with Peter Gunn, but perhaps you should call him and work it out. Maybe send him flowers.

<<<>>>

About as easy as adding "rhetorical" at the end of an empty and pointless series of comments and hoping no one notices.
Do let us all know if you get to hear a pair of Gunned Magnepans. Until that point in time your comments are purely speculative.

I'm outa this thread. I'll let Davey have the last word. NO doubt he needs to have it, so let him go. My apologies to Mister Gunn, but I do think this thread exposed something useful in the end, even if it's not directly related to my speakers!

Robert

Follow Ups:

RE: What's that supposed to mean? - Peter Gunn 16:58:07 03/24/08 (10)
Well, at the very least this thread made an interesting swirl on the page.

As far as davey goes I am no longer going to bother talking to him, which is why I am responding to you. He went from, lets say being a pin prick on here about my mods to doing the same thru unsolicited emails directly, and from the outset it was obvious he didn't care, didn't believe, and was only going thru the motions so he could say he did it and then complain about it. Never once did I ever believe he was really interested, and it was pretty obvious.

He wrote me a brief, terse email 2 months ago that literally said little more than "tell me how to build your stands". (no hello or thank you) When I told him I could not and explained why he wrote other people telling them how rude and un-helpfull I was to him! (I know this because they told me)

Yet magically, in another unsolicited email from him a month after this he "let slip" how he knew my stands sucked, "because he built them". I never even bothered responding.

Even if he made them in a week (which assumes he did not go to work for that whole week, and we are still assuming a LOT (like he had all the parts he needed even before he knew what to do) that only gives him 3 weeks. It takes 300 hours for the XO to break in, so he would have had to play them almost 15 hours a day just to reach full break in in a month. He not only did all this, but he tested them, measured them, and did all this other stuff (except take a picture) whereupon he immediately deduced "it doesn't sound good". I guess he didn't work for the whole month.

He doesn't even say why, it's just "not as good as the other way".

Some people might look at this and deduce his biggest fault is he's a liar, as he could not have made, broken in, and tested them in less than 30 days as he claims. I don't think that's his biggest problem.

The fact is that if he's NOT lying, he really thinks maggies turned the wrong way in mdf frames with who knows what XO sound better than my way. In which case I can only say he has to be the most tone deaf person I have ever met, and my advice to him is sell his gear, and go buy whatever is on sale at best buy because pal, it doesn't matter what gear you own.

Two people on here have divulged that industry insiders have heard my speakers and said they can compete against anything. Anything. But according to Davey they suck.

The Captain is right kid, we've heard all we need to hear and everyone can decide for themselves, and I'm terribly sorry what I do didn't "do it" for you. Now have whatever reply you need to get in, however I have no desire to read it or reply to it.

It's all about the music...
- RE: What's that supposed to mean? - Davey 18:08:52 03/24/08 (3)
  Well, you've got quite the imagination Mister Gunn. Show me anywhere on this forum where I said your speakers "suck." Please point me to it. I'm actually fairly impressed with the speakers. Certainly better than stock. If you'd read what I said vice what you want to believe I said there wouldn't be so much mis-understanding on your part.
  
  I wrote a terse email and didn't bother to say "thank you?" I think you better re-read those emails Mr. Gunn.
  
  I never once said your "stands sucked." Not in any email, and not on this forum. In fact, the stands are the most impressive part of your modification. If you would bother to re-read my comments since that time frame you'll see that I agree with you that this is a worthwhile part of the modification. I even confimred it with some objective evalutions.
  
  If you think a crossover takes 300 hours to break in you're in dreamland. The frame I turned out in about two hours...not counting glue drying time. Not as pleasing as yours aesthetically, but functional nonetheless.
  
  Here's a photo: The companion woofers turn the system into a three-way for much improved performance but are moved out of the way when using the MMG's exclusively. There's a little piece to fill that hole in the bottom, but I didn't have it installed for this photo.
  
  Cheers,
  
  Dave.
  - fair square - Peter Gunn 07:25:43 03/26/08 (2)
    This reply was generated because of a talk I had with a friend who feels we both are at odds and for the wrong reasons.
    
    First, you have to understand that there is a rediculous number of people who apparently have nothing better to do than give me grief, or try to ever since this "mod" of mine went from being just mine to everyones. (like the person from the netherlands posting that his speakers are shaking as his warranty is void)
    
    Some are overtly and obviously hostile. Some are more sublime, and instead of attacking get their glee from wasting huge amounts of my time.
    
    IMHO many of your "contacts" with me (here or thru email) had an air at times about them of someone who was trying to drag me along for his jollies. Maybe you didn't think so or mean it, but they did. I forwarded some of your letters to friends asking "is it him or me" and their replies were that your motives were not always clear and some tone seemed to be there at times, and occasionally some rudeness expressed by being very short and/or thankless.
    
    I admit I may have been wrong in my perceptions, but that is how I began to perceive it, and my time being so short when that happened I simply cut you off and no longer read your posts or emails at all. I offer my apology for both of those things, but for your own future reference I (and those I showed them to) thought your "wording" often came across as left handed and circumspect, even though you may not have thought so or intended it. (For example, yes, you "thanked me" but only after going to others and complaining that I didn't help you, and the email you sent "asking" for help didn't ask, it had a demanding tone and it also had no thank you)
    
    But lets consider all that what it is, water under the bridge.
    
    As for ther mod, first the XO. If you don't like the XO, that's a matter of taste. It surprises me (and makes me question what it is you listen for) but neither of us is right or wrong in that regard. In any event having done work in that area yourself I can only wonder if there was any need for you to even bother, as it was not something you were unfamiliar with and you probably knew you weren't going to like it going in, so the exercise seems pointless to begin with. A majority may prefer a certain XO, but even then, one cannot say there is one "right" one.
    
    As for the XO taking 300 hours, I suggest you put the time in and listen. I have heard it happen, and many of my customers and other DIYer's who did it themselves write me at that time to tell me of the sudden unexpected change around that hour mark. In fact many high end manufacturers also say it (my Hovland preamp also did indeed take that long to break in, and the change was very obvious when it happened) so I'm not sure why you doubt this. Again, this is why I brushed claims made in a month aside.
    
    OK, now the sucking part :^ ) True enough, that was not the word you used, but in one of the unsolicited emails you sent me, you intimated that my mod was "not all that I thought it was" and that you had measurements and asked if I wanted to know why. I replied and asked when did you hear a pair, whereupon you then said "Hear? I made them."
    
    Now, given what I wrote above, WHY would I invite myself to that table? Your motives to me at that time were suspect, you wrote me out of the blue giving me dribbles at a time, and dribbles that seemed to be doing nothing other than setting me up for a fall I didn't need or believe.
    
    As for the photo, it is a frame of wood but the similarity between it and what I do ends right there. I have very big issues not only with it being hung from the ceiling (which is a terrible thing to do) but it being verticle as well. There's no support, it's not coupled to the floor, and it's not at the correct angle. (or possibly height) Anything you measured off of it setup that way would indeed be lacking I suspect. (I also don't know why it's made like stilts, and where is the XO box? How is it supported? That makes a HUGE difference on how they sound)
    
    In closing, while I appreciate the effort to try to absorb what I do, and I am glad there are aspects you do like, and I am glad your intent was never to "bugger" me, I can say your attempt is not even remotely close enough to give you a true idea what my finished mod really sounds like. I don't mean this abrasively, but the smallest points matter a great deal in how it sounds when it comes together and what you made is a vague facsimile, not the actual thing. I hope one day you get to hear an actual pair made by me. You may or may not like it any more than yours, but at least you'll have heard what I intended.
    
    Again, 1,000 apologies for my bastard-like behavior.
    
    It's all about the music...
    - RE: fair square - MaggieLover 17:01:22 03/26/08 (0)
      "Again, 1,000 apologies for my bastard-like behavior" Be still my heart, I have been to the mountain top. I wish all the discourses on this forum could be as civil as this last between you and Davey. Best regards to you both.
      
      Maggies, because you can never be too thin!
      
      Mark
    - RE: fair square - Davey 14:38:39 03/26/08 (0)
      PG,
      Well, you can dismiss my effort out of hand based on my low resolution photo but I believe I did it right.
      The baffle dimensions are the same as yours...the transducer mechanical coupling to the frame is the same...the crossover I used (components broken-in previously with MANY hours) is the same.
      The measurements/observations I made confirm the "action" of the framework as far as energy transfer. I auditioned the system vertically and slanted. If you look closer at the photo you'll see that they aren't suspended from the ceiling, but just resting against another set of speakers that are behind. (I just put them there for the photo opportunity.)
      Actually, suspending speakers from the ceiling can be an excellent solution depending upon the type of speakers and various other factors. That's another topic.
      It's a valid effort (although not identical) to evaluate your modificaton. If the fact that it's not TOTALLY identical completely invalidates (in your mind) my efforts then there's not much I can do about that. :)
      Your comment that my attempt "is not even remotely close enough to give you a true idea......." is pure speculation. (As are many of your comments about various topics on this forum.)
      Regarding me "absorbing" what you do: There wasn't any absorption necessary. I completely understand the concept, and I completely understand the implementation. Your condescension is unbecoming.
      I appreciate your efforts in modding the Maggie systems. It's good work.
      As I said in another posting.....you're not sitting on the sidelines, but in the game working at it. That's much better than most who post on this forum.
      There is no apology necessary. You are what you are. A person shouldn't have to apologize for that.
      My only request would be that in the future if you regurgitate any conversations we had (or might have) offline that you do it accurately and not mis-state me.
      Cheers,
      Dave.
      
      Edits: 03/26/08
- RE: What's that supposed to mean? - Planar Owner 18:02:53 03/24/08 (5)
  You know what PG, that last post of yours was really classless. As a "manufacturer" you should learn to rise above any petty dissing of your products and learn to keep your mouth shut. If they're as good as you say they are then you'll no doubt be successful. All your defensive rhetoric just makes you look like a fool, trying to protect the good name of a product at all costs, even if it means adopting the same childish behavior that your detractors use.
  As a long time owner of magnepan products, I saw your involvement in these forums as a breath of fresh air, initially. Now you've become as annoying as the trolls with whom like like to spar with on every occasion possible.
  
  I'm sure you or someone will pick this message apart, using quotation marks and explaining with reference to other posts how wrong I am. Well good luck with that one.
  - RE: What's that supposed to mean? - Peter Gunn 06:00:44 03/25/08 (1)
    You're right of course, but I'm only human too. I'm still a joiner, and because what I tend to make most often has changed hasn't suddenly instilled me with the patience of Job.... :^ )
    
    However you'll note I didn't get involved in this and only eventually decided to because he kept mis-quoting personal events between him and I that only I could verify, and since he wasn't being honest I felt he needed to be corrected.
    
    Now he'll respond saying I'm a liar but as you say, I don't care and I am done with this thread too.
    
    It's all about the music...
    - RE: What's that supposed to mean? - Davey 06:34:53 03/25/08 (0)
      PG,
      
      Please re-read the email conversation we had. I can forward it to you if you've deleted it. I re-read it last night and IMHO it's relatively cordial from both ends.
      
      Dave.
  - RE: What's that supposed to mean? - TheGoodCaptain 05:58:19 03/25/08 (0)
    I'm sure you or someone will pick this message apart, using quotation marks and explaining with reference to other posts how wrong I am. Well good luck with that one.> > > >
    
    There's punctuation after "well."
    
    See, you were right!
    
    Robert
  - RE: What's that supposed to mean? - TheGoodCaptain 18:38:59 03/24/08 (0)
    Davey, Mister Gunn and everyone....
    
    Let's kill this thread. Forget it. One can only stay classy for so long in these dumb battles, so before we all call out each other's grandmothers, let's put a stop to it.
    
    For the love of music and Maggies!
    
    And it's Monday fer cripes sake...so let's chill and let it all fade into history.
    
    Goodnight....and check out the very complex Metis remote that came with my Rogue Preamp. There were no directions on how to use it.
    
    Robert
  - RE: What's that supposed to mean? - Davey 18:36:48 03/24/08 (0)
    Well said. You managed to name-call and insult everyone involved with just a few sentences.
    
    Dave.

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