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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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Music Lane It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes. |
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In Reply to: Musing on Celibidache's Bruckner (Warning: this is a non-guitar post) posted by patrick S on February 22, 2000 at 11:00:30:
The most important thing, and something which you seem to forget is that Celibidache refused to make recordings, because his exploring of the acoustics of a concerthall only came through in a life situation. He hated recordings, but after his death his family wanted to make this legacy public, eventually hitting some money out of it, although it's said to serve public goals, but listening to recordings is what Celi would have trashed. Therefore these recordings aren't faithful to the sound itself, because they weren't intended as recordings, but they're all live-recordings. I still can't judge Furtwangler's recordings, but I'm sure you'll miss a lot of information, but just like his wartime Beethoven set, the communicated emotions will probably be pretty strong and faster with this kind of music often means more exciting, but Celi embraced the idea when there's very much music, ergo a lot of notes, you should take time to make them develope, as you probably heard in the rehearsal fragments of the ninth, making every note as important as another one, without preferring a particular line, respecting Bruckner's music as an ideal of symphonic writing, going for the idea to translate the score as a cathedral of symphonic writing instead of going for the big climaxes, making every voice, how infinitely small still heard and yes, when compared to Jochum with a strong stress on the brass, Haitink with a strong stress on the strings and the woodwinds, this might sound a bit full and slow, but one can hear the total admiration from Celi towards especially this composer and especially the 8th symphony which he thought to be the zenith of symphonic writing. Celibidache believed, as I quote from the booklet from the 8th, in making symphonic music in the original and all-embracing sense of the word: in sounding together. Notes resound together at more than individual moments. This consonance also occurs in the temporal dimension, which may thus be experienced as outside of time, ideally as a simultaneity of all the moments involved in it, when each moment of happening contains the relationship to all other moments. This is the only way to understand what Celibidache emant when he talked of the 'end in the beginning' or the 'beginning in the end', (that's why he put such stress on the opening notes of the 4th, my comment, Rob) - embracing an experience that has transcended duality. This is not understanding in the intellectual sense, though, because thought cannot escape the duality of everyday comprehension: 'What you think is wrong. Only you don't yet know it. Experience is decisive.' [...] From this vantage point, Celibidache saw Bruckner as the most gifted of all symphonists: no other composer, he believed, had such a command of form while offering such extreme contrasts, such an experience of the 'end in the beginning'. And nowhere does this succeed with this symphonic irrefutability as in the second version of Bruckner's 8th symphony, where teh question left open at the desolate end of the first movement is answered only just before the coda of the final movement with the ultimate return of the 'death-theme', the symphony's opening and and main theme- or in Bruckner's simple words:'In the fourth movement of my 8th symphony the trombones come at the end to signify the Last Judgement.' Consononance also determines the concluding coda, where the themes of the four movements are symbolically united.So you're hearing things Celibidache himself didn't intend, so perhaps that's due to the recording quality which could be worse than Furtwangler's versions, or we should have listened to the late maestro to not release these performances, or it's just a matter of taste and when the latter is concerned I've got to disagree with you, because I really like the orchestral playing under Van Beinum, worse, I'm in love with that sound, the architecture of Bruckner's symphonies come to me most logically via Celibidache's baton, still having to check out Furtie:-))
Rob
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Follow Ups
- Re: Musing on Celibidache's Bruckner (Warning: this is a non-guitar post) - Rob 11:38:24 02/22/00 (2)
- Patrick contra Rob - patrick S 12:18:47 02/22/00 (1)
- Re: Patrick contra Rob? - Rob 13:09:02 02/22/00 (0)
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