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Can't connect to database, trying again.... RE: Wind - String Balances - Mike Porper - Music Lane

Home Music Lane

It's all about the music, dude! Sit down, relax and listen to some tunes.

RE: Wind - String Balances

There's existing correspondence of Beethoven's, around and after the 5th Symphony, of him inquiring into the number of musicians [and quality] available for concerts of his symphonies, and demanding larger numbers. Goes flat against HIP conclusions, but, HIPpers would have to destroy the letters. Daniel Koury, a known authority, in his authoritative book on the development of the orchestra points this out.

I beleive that at the time of the 2nd, Beethoven wasn't completely deaf. I beleive that total, utter deafness came later. In any case, whether he heard or felt or was inspired in some way, he apparently was in the presence of a larger orchestra, and liked it enough to want it going forward.

But, even if he was utterly, insensibly deaf by the time of the 2nd sym, how can you, or anyone, conclude that his aural imagination was limited to some tiny orhestra? Especially when we're talking about a genius of Beethoven's calibre? Just knowing how he treated the pianos of his day tells us something about his desire for massive sonorities, when called upon.

Large orchestras weren't limited to festivals, although huge forces were assembled for such occations. But, as Koury points out, and as I stated, the size of ensemble was flexible, and dependent on the finances available - not on some artistic preference of the composer. To say that Mozart & Haydn were satisfied with smaller forces is to subtly distort history. If that's all they had available, then they were happy to get a performance off the ground. Certianly, the quality of ensemble would've been their first concern. But, the further distorsion of historic fact exists when we look at Haydn's reaction to the Paris orchestra. A large orchestra, as is well known. Did Haydn stamp his foot, throw a fit, and enraged, demand - demand! - that they cut their forces down [with no more thatn 2 celli] - because, otherwise, they were violating his principles of orhestral sound?

Instead, he delighted in the large orchestral forces. He loved it. Furthermore, while there are large quantities of books on various musical topics, especially theory, from the time of Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, there's not one - not one - on orchestra size or proportions. Bottom line, there was no hard and fast rule governing orchestral proportions, and no such asthetic such as that developed by late 20th cent HIPs.

You may prefer a wind dominated sonority. That's fine. That doesn't make it historically accurate. It may or may not be. And surely, you mean winds dominating during tuttis, since every good orchestra plays all of the parts, and whenever the voice leading goes to the winds, they play, and you can hear them. It's not as though modern orchestras deny wind parts.

Finally, I didn't mean to lecture you, nor anyone. Indeed, I respect the many opinions and information you've posted here, including this one [thanks for the references; I'll be avidly seeking them and reading]. If there's any tone of sarcasm, it's directed rather at the HIP establishment and conductors such as Norrington, who always proclaim that they've conducted "research", yet neither published any such research, no provided any proof of their 'discoveries', other than to state that they've said it must be so. No disrespect toward you, nor anyone else here.



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