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In Reply to: I've bought twice from Lorenz posted by Chris Garrett on April 21, 2000 at 07:38:27:
The fact is, this dealer clearly sells fakes but has a technique of avoiding negative feedback - he not only freely returns your money, but threatens negative feedback to you if you do it to him! He also seems to have feedback from many of the same people, who also turn up on Ebay selling the same stuff.Just look at the tubes posted and anyone who knows tubes knows they are fakes. The labelling on the tubes often doesn't even resemble the original manufacturers. The quantity of tubes and prices sold for are another big question mark.
The other problem is the quality of the tubes. A lot of the real stuff sold is of second run quality, poor section to section matching, poor test results generally, etc. etc..I guess people want to buy from him anyways. The cool looking boxes are a big selling point, and he always seems to have a steady supply to sell. If you wanna buy, buy - but I hope others are wary of this guy and look to the many dealers without question marks beside their names.
Yep, that's the deal. I bought a set of tubes from Lorenz; they were ridiculous fake Mullards, with the shiny new boxes. Sheah, right. The section to section balance on these relabelled Teslas was awful, and 4 of the 6 tested below mins. Factory-reject relabels.When I confronted Lorenz, he happily refunded my money including the shipping charge. So what can you do? According to eBay rules, he made "good" on the transaction by refunding the $$, so you can't leave negative feedback. And if you would, you risk getting it right back at you, and I don't want that scarlet letter on my eBay feedback rating.
I would imagine the story is the same for most people that discover they've been had. Of course, others are oblivious to it all, and they happily post positive feedback for the man. Such is eBay.
The VT-231s that I bought from Lorenz are obviously fakes.Raanan
Well, I just looked up some of Bugleman's current offerings (they're the same as his usual stock) and here's a little sample:Haltron ECC88 - he says made in England, but they look like Sovtek's to me. Never seen Haltron printing like this before, and the boxes are obvious fakes.
Brimar E88CC - not a surprise, they look exactly the same as the Haltrons he's offering.
Siemens ECC88 - again, same construction as the Brimar and Haltron offerings, and the print on the tubes is obviously not real Siemens.
Amperex EL34 quad - well, I guess he got nervous about this one cause real quads go for huge $$. He admits they are probably Chinese. But again, his stock of reprinted Amperex boxes goes with them.
Mullard GZ37 - this one's real dangerous. They are clearly substandard Chinese production and may not be real GZ37's at all. The Chinese version is very unreliable and actually can't handle the same current as the real Mullards. The unfortunate victim of this purchase may get a very nasty and dangerous surprise.
Amperex 5751 - print on the tubes is obviously not known Amperex labelling, boxes are reprints.
Amperex 5AR4 - same story as the 5751, and again, this might be a dangerous beastie for the buyer.I don't have the time or energy to go through all his many auctions, but if people wanna believe they're real, and it makes 'em happy, don't let any of the many postings about this deter you. There's a customer for everyone out there!
"Amperex EL34 quad - well, I guess he got nervous about this one cause real quads go for huge $$. He admits they are probably Chinese. But again, his stock of reprinted Amperex boxes goes with them.
Mullard GZ37 - this one's real dangerous. They are clearly
substandard Chinese production and may not be real GZ37's at all. The
Chinese version is very unreliable and actually can't handle the same current as the real Mullards. The unfortunate victim of this purchase may get a very nasty and dangerous surprise.
Amperex 5751 - print on the tubes is obviously not known Amperex
labelling, boxes are reprints.
Amperex 5AR4 - same story as the 5751, and again, this might be a
dangerous beastie for the buyer."The Amperex and Mullard brand names are both owned by
Richardson Electronics, Ltd. They've plastered those
brand names on all sorts of stuff that never got close
to a European factory, and still do with Amperex( go to
http://catalog.rell.com and search on Amperex).
Yes, this may seem outrageous to some folks, but
the name is legally their property and they're
entitled to use it to label tubes as they like.
That's undoubtedly where some of these "Amperex"
tubes he's selling came from (tho those 5751 don't look like
they're stamped any way I've ever seen Richardson do it,
but who knows). Philips (the people who used to own
Amperex) isn't exactly guilt-free either,
I've seen Chinese & Russian tubes in factory issue
Philips ECG boxes.
The Amperex boxes Richardson uses are pretty easy to detect,
look inside the bottom flap you'll see a "K P Co."
circular trademark. Since Richardson owns the box dies
and screens(ie: no one else could go to K P Co. and have the
same box made) and getting custom boxes made is a fairly
expensive propostion, one can be fairly confident that
boxes with the K P Co. mark came from Richardson.OTOH...
Looking at the GE 12AT7/6201's the guy is selling,
the tubes are labelled "JG-12AT7WA", which indicates they
ought to be in *military* boxes, not commercial (aka "jobber")
ones. And the numbers on the end of the box are in a
different typeface than GE normally used on their tube boxes.
AAMOF, I've got a JG-12AT7WA GE here, it's in a white
mil box, with a datecode on the outside as well as on the tube.In all fairness, the GZ37's do indeed look like the
real thing, tho.
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