|
Audio Asylum Thread Printer Get a view of an entire thread on one page |
For Sale Ads |
Please note that the sentiments expressed here are not the result of any particular post nor meant to depreciate the opinion of any inmate, but are general musings.We read in posts here and on other boards statement like ;
* DVD-A (or SACD - take your choice) is faulty and not as good as SACD (or DVD-A)
* The sound from CDs is crappy compared to vinyl
* Who would sanely mess around cleaning LPs, adjusting cartridges, junping up & down ever 20 or so minutes, .....
* Tube sound is the only realistic sound
* Home Theatre is rubbish & its surround sound only good for helicopter noises in the room
and so on & so onAre such verbal feuds because of insecurity, jealosy, ignorance, .... or a combination of all these and other factors?
Why cannot some people concede that maybe DVD-A & SACD both have their strengths and weaknesses and either or both can be sonically pleasing for the music? Why can those who enjoy the hobby of collecting and maximising their musical result from vinyl concede there are good and bad LPs just as there are good & bad CDs - either can be a spurce of musical satisfaction? Why ...... ?
OK, passion is intrinsic to music, but passion about the sort of things mentioned above is surely a waste of time and energy. But then maybe it is that inane sort of arguing that keeps Boards like this alive & kicking!!!
Follow Ups:
To the style of Sullivan tune and Gilberts words.HNY2U
----------------
I am the very model of a Newsgroup Personality
I intersperse obscenity with tedious banality.
Addresses I have plenty of, both genuine and ghosted to,
On all the countless newsgroups that my drivel is cross-posted to.Your bandwidth I will fritter with my whining and my snivelling,
And you're the one who pays the bill downloading all my drivelling.
My enemies are numerous, and no one would be blaming you
For thinking me a dickhead after I've been rudely flaming you.I hate to lose an argument (by now I should be used to it).
I wouldn't know a valid point if I was introduced to it.
My learning is extensive but consists of mindless trivia,
Designed to fan my ego, which is larger than Bolivia.The comments that I vomit forth, disguised as jest and drollery,
Are really just an exercise in unremitting trollery.
I say I'm frank and forthright, but that's merely lies and vanity,
The gibberings of one who's at the limit of ones sanity.If only I could get a life, as many people tell me to;
If only mum could find a circus freak-show she could sell me to;
If I go off to Zanzibar to paint the local scenery;
If I lose all my fingers in a mishap with machinery;If I survive to forty, which is somewhat problematical;
If what I post was more mature, or slightly more grammatical;
If I could learn to spell a bit, and maybe even punctuate;
Would I still be the loathsome and objectionable prat you hate?But while I have this tiresome urge to prance around and show my face,
It's simply isn't safe for normal people here in cyberspace.
To stick me in Old Sparky and turn on the electricity
Would be a fitting punishment for my egocentricity.I always have the last word; so, with utmost of finality,
That's all from me, the model of a Newsgroup Personality.Tom Holt
nt
Although like the people he parrots he goes on long after the point is made...
Randy
I smoke and I drink
and each time I blink
I have a tiny dream
As bad as I am,
I'm proud of the fact
that I'm worse than I seem
- Ani DiFranco
We read in posts here and on other boards statement like ;* DVD-A (or SACD - take your choice) is faulty and not as good as SACD (or DVD-A)
* The sound from CDs is crappy compared to vinyl
* Who would sanely mess around cleaning LPs, adjusting cartridges, junping up & down ever 20 or so minutes, .....
* Tube sound is the only realistic sound
* Home Theatre is rubbish & its surround sound only good for helicopter noises in the room
My favorites are:
* Even my daughter's boombox sounds better than anything Bose makes...
* It's all in your head- There are no sonic differences in wire...
* Two-channel audio will die- It behooves you to go multi-channel...
* Tubes?? You're living in the past...
* You spent a grand for that power cord?? Oh brother...
* Do you have PROOF to back up your claim??? If you don't, you're FOS!!!
* DEALER X JUST < insert rip-off story or customer service nightmare here, in all caps>
* Read the < insert technical document here> and quit posting misinformation!!
nt
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
…that causes the smug self-righteous to post their rubbish (“insecurity, jealousy, ignorance, narrow-mindness, dick thing”, etc.) and musings about others ;-)No offense is intended because I certainly have to include myself in that pompous group too - the grand negative generalizations about mankind and the male gender stereotyping (based on this silly but fun hobby!) is cracking me up.
a
... apart from a few exceptions, most people posting at AA these days are tolerant.Obviously in many "A" or "B" choices many sincerely believe "A" while others "B". That is healthy and promotes competition with the bottom line that each of "A" and "B" serves much the same purpose, in much the same way, with differences being relatively minor. This could be extrapolated in our area of interest to differences between mid fi and better (to our minds) gear. The music is recognisable in both cases and many get genuine musical enjoyment from their mid fi systems. [Ironically,some of these are on a par with the "hi-end" gear of 20 years ago]. And I must confess to be guilty of Bose bashing myself - rather childish as many enjoy their Bose systems. But it is a good Aunt Sally for us to have fun with and I would not insult some of my misguided (there I go again!) friends who own them. I guess the point with Bose gear is that, to our minds, it is poor value for the dollar.
What is unhealthy IMO is a believer in "A" saying "B" is rubbish, or even worse, abusing anyone who does not agree with his/her opinion of "A".
Having "beliefs" in politics, religion etc seems to be an anchor that the human being needs. Unfortunately tolerance of different beliefs is less common and that often seems to extend to audio & video. But, as I said before, this appears to be less common on AA than on other boards.
Hip hip hooray for us & a happy new year to you all.
John
s
and its Nature period. The romantic explanations below are cute, but overall mis-interpretations.look at an interesting statement J. Curl made a little while ago on propeller i think..."what is it all for..". In the discussion about cables (what else?), he states that he opposes DBT and such because the results reflect testing artifacts (probably because there are enough anecdotal evidence to support the possibility of a meaningful difference).
Accepting the results means an end to the debate and thus the wrong attitude to generate progress (i.e., further ortho. testing, hypothesis, etc.) ...I disagree on the cable issue, but agree on the attitude issue...and this applies to many, many endeavors.
As for our debates having no impact on Audio trends, its probably accurate...but going thru the debates, perhaps, helps formulate our individual likes and dislikes (in terms of system gear) and impacts how and how much we appreciate music (at least in my case).
is considered the top of a field of endeavor or a product. What you have is the best, and it's going to be a single person or thing. As such, when you have two formats entitled "Hi-Res" only one is going to be the Hi-Res'iest of the two. Otherwise it gets kinda boring don't you think...if it's all equal and good and pass the buscuits please, there's no challenge, no edge to keep the blood flowing. All this even handed, let's all get along and think nice things about everyone and everything wouldn't hold your interest for more than a mintue. But get a good debate going and you'll be riveted on seeing the outcome. So yes, it is human nature...nothing wrong with that...we are human after all...YMMV :)
And Michigan doesn't prevail in the Rose Bowl. There will be two national college football champions, a travesty that only a computer ranking system could produce.
My wife and I have an expression for what you're talking about: "It's a dick thing!", although we actually came up with this in relation to certain types of drivers and their automobiles. One of the things the Internet has done is to give everyone a forum to express, in anonymity, their "expert" opinions, whether their own or those they've found elsewhere. If you look back over your list-and others could be added-many of these are points made ad infinitum for years. (Well, obviously not DVD-A or SACD.) To some extent this is a good thing, but only up to a point, after which the degree of heat generated becomes ridiculous, especially in what is after all a hobby, i.e., something one does for fun.
You know?It is natural to think you have the best whatever it is....or wish it were so.
Mainly a MALE affliction, I would think, buy who knows?
Audio is no different from other hobbies like art, cars and guns.
They all generate a certain amount of passion and excitement. That is what makes it interesting, colorful and fun. Same as humanity itself. Variety+ passion... you know? Hell, some people argue with the same vitriol about what music is best.
We blow some steam, then go and listen to the music. At least we don't kill each other over our systems and we have some fun.
Otherwise, this whole site could be contained in just the propellerhead forum. :)
Here's to the bunch of youse bums. I love ya. Happy New Year.
......as we ascend the heights of audiodom (decend into the pit of self-deception?). when performance differences are recognized there is a tendency to dismiss lessor (but still wonderful) approaches as not (as) valid.this passion, maybe the human desire to attain something 'better' or 'best', and the intellectual need to be right, all contribute to this situation. there are a few among us that have the ability to be passionate but non-judgemental.....i know many of us at least try for that.
even though i don't see myself as a format snob......i know that from time to time i have said/written things that could be classified as 'rubbish'.
i know i would rather risk a little 'rubbish' from time to time than to restrict or dumb-down communications and comments to a degree that would stifle dialog. whatever the current balance of signal to noise ratio of rubbish to constructive posts seems pretty close to right to me.
what's life without passion?........maybe dvd-a?.....or cd's.....or ss?.....or?......or?......or?......sorry.
mikel
It seems hobbies, for some, are not undertaken for the quiet enjoyment of the fruits of the hobby but instead are used as a stage for chest thumping competitions. The greater number of stages (could be hobbies among other things) one can thump the greater the probability of attracting a mate. After many failed attempts most of these creatures get used to and like to simply feel themselves thump.The behavior you cite has nothing to do with any sort of objective audio reality.
Big chests, big ears & small brains?????No wonder CD sales are falling!!
I was thinking evolution would construct a visual and functional cross between the Harry Palm fellow in Cheech and Chong, the fat guy in the barf scene (meaning of life), and a couch.
...at the end of his life. His conclusion was that most people just aren't really coming from all that great a place. Actually his exact words were 'Most people are TRASH' but that never made it into any of his personality theory opuses.
however, freud was no simple, one dimensional cartoon figure that many of his detractors appear to believe that he was. From the emotional investment that we often see in modern commentators, one might suppose that there is a defensive neurotic collective need to neutralize the freudian animus. Herbert Marcuse spoke of "repressive desublimation", sort of a political empowering of the id, expressing itself in much of popular culture (to use the term liberally). A desublimating political-cultural form of being may indeed find an analytic model to be a emotional irritant.
nt
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
sketchy ground with respect to your credibility in your hit-and-run character assasination of Freud. If you're going to make such a massive and overwrought generalization, you'll need yo defend it with specifics--not more massive, dense generalizations and ad hominem attacks.
Discussing Freud is like discussing religion; no matter how extensive and persuasive the arguments I put forward, those opposing will be able to counter with equal aplom and no-one will alter his/her opinion.Suffice to say I've read just about everything Freud has ever written and regarded it as mostly a waste of time. No doubt many found his work highly convincing and I wouldn't wish to dissuade them from their train of thought, rather I submit my own briefly in 'hit and run' fashion especially in an audio forum where the vast majority of readers wouldn't be interested anyway.
For a purely random example of over-complexity and in my opinion over-use of introsective thinking think of Freud's analysis of why a certain child was scared by a horse and carriage and tell me his conclusion wasn't laughable.
Religion; yes, you're probably right about that.I tend to agree on a more broad level that the usefulness of a lot of so-called analysis boils down to having someone disinterested listen to one speak once a week or so. Could do that on a tram, too.
Best,
Kristian
PS: I'm quite an advocate of the hit-and-run philosophy meself--by-the-by. It can be quite entertaining.
"I tend to agree on a more broad level that the usefulness of a lot of so-called analysis boils down to having someone disinterested listen to one speak once a week or so. Could do that on a tram, too."You may find the provided link interesting.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
Well, now, that is interesting. It seems one could postulate that debriefing reinforces the permanence of the traumatizing aspects of an incident!PS: How old are your 509's? Since I saw you had a pair, I've become quite keen on investigating them further. I assume they've been undergoing regular upgrades over the years?
"PS: How old are your 509's? Since I saw you had a pair, I've become quite keen on investigating them further. I assume they've been undergoing regular upgrades over the years?"I'd assumed that they would need the caps upgrading but no such thing (they're around 15 years old) when you consider that some of the very best recordings were made many moons ago with old valve equipment; resolution isn't lacking to put it mildly.
The only upgrade I've made is to cut the mains lead off an inch from chassis and fit an IEC connector to accept aftermarket cords; JPS mains leads seem to do just fine.
In a nutshell the 509s are 'live' with a superb midrange and bass depth/quality that far outstrips SS of the same spec. I can't recommend them enough and in fact I just picked up a used pair of 519's (almost identical to the 509s) in order to bi-amp my Revels, the result is outstanding and the system's hardly been off during the holidays.
I did a review some time ago in the Asylum's own 'Review' section.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
In large measure I believe this is not inaccurate, however, Freud did add some original thought to the field. As I am quite behavioral in orientation, I am not a serious scholar of Freud's.
"Freud did add some original thought to the field".
"Freud was very disturbed full stop; overated in the extreme - a populariser rather than originator"And this is patently false. Historically, Freud's great contribution was a new way to conceptualize and integrate a host of previously non-related concepts. Before Freud, there was little understanding of what was even meant by the sub-conscious mind. Before Freud, people believed that we were aware of, and could identify our motivations for behavior. No one prior to Freud explained both the origin of, and the interplay between the parts of our consciousness. People also neglect his contributions as a developmentalist in his attempt to describe the origins of personality and the human as a social being (he predates Erikson). And, who before Freud actually proposed numerous ways to actually access the unconscios mind? And, how about the twenty or so ego defense mechanisms that he, and Anna, identified?
Don't get me wrong. There is much to criticize about Freud. Call him non-scientific, or neglectful of the nature side of the equation. He dealt with things like the "mind" and the "subconcious" which are horribly vague and do not lend themselves to sceintific study. Most of his ideas came from studying a handful of patients. You could go on and on.....but to say he simply popularized what already existed is simply false.
"Don't get me wrong. There is much to criticize about Freud."You've mastered the art of the understatement and you're certificate is in the post.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
"You've mastered the art of the understatement and you're certificate is in the post."Well, okay. I was going to say that you are full of shit, but that would have been impolite. But, with your encouragement, maybe I can get to the point to say what I really mean. You're full of shit!
"You're full of shit!"Atta boy! Let it all out.
Freud was a genius of his time. Much of the feminist writings that get on his case IMO are unfair because you have to look at the period the man lived in...he too was a product of the nature of his society.And yes he may have been proven wrong here and there, but his stages of development up to the point he went was not too far off what others who followed him have suggested. They seem like tweaks than overhauls. His three part brain is still IMO one of the best ways to view the subconscious conscious mind.
He used correlational observation and not a terrific scientific method...funny thing about correlational observation is that often times it's correct - don't tell the people who think cables, cd players and amplifiers actually sound different.
Freud was a master of creating complexity where there was none, and some of the conclusions/diagnosis he conjured for patients were laughable; he made mountains out of molehills and although obviously he was knowledgeable I'm quite sure others in his field were far more perceptive and skilled but weren't so popular or skilled at writing.
Best Regards,
Chris redmond.
a
...and of freud's and I have not encountered the message to which you refer. Perhaps you could provide references?
I think this summarizes the struggle that Freud felt was a person's ultimate conflict -- that of personal desire (vis-a-vis the id) and societal constraint (embodiment vis-a-vis superego).Personally, I think his earlier work (pre 1900's) was the most interesting since it was so strongly influenced by the physiologists (Freud dealing with positive and negative brain forces -- see Boring's History of Psychology for a nice summary) as well as the French hypnotherapists such as Charcot.
“I do not break my head very much about good and evil, but I have found very little that is ‘good’ about human beings on the whole. In my experience most of them are trash."Well then, you need to read a little bit more. The above quote was written to a pastor friend of his. It is fairly typical of Freud's rather pessimistic view of humankind. However, while most people believe that Freud believed people were inately "bad" and this was their nature and it could not be overcome, this is not true. He believed that people, if provided an education in morality, would behave in a moral manner.
I had a class taught by the well-known Armand Nicholi at Harvard, where he compared the philopsophy of Freud with that of C.S. Lewis.
This does not surprise me. Freud believed that Nurture had a huge influence on the production of quality people.That said my psych prof also said that psychologists know if someone is a psychopath(or variant sociopath etc) by the age of ~10. There is no cure. The best that can be done is to get them to function in society...but they'll be the first one in on a riot. To use a Freudian ide...these people have no super ego. The id wants to commit a rape, the ego will tell the id how to do it and not get caught...as a governor. The Super ego is the moral judge that says "well I can get away with the rape but it's wrong so I won't".
That Prof said that around 30% of the population fall into the little or no super ego camp(or have a psychopathic sociopathic etc personality).
I like Freud...I think too much unfair attacks are placed on him really only reflect the time and beliefs of his society.
or probably in your case "Freud for Idiots".
It is a very well known comment by Freud.
Quite likely you can track it down online fairly quickly or go to one of the Frued/psyche forums on the web and ask.A quick look around brought me to this as a place to start:
Psychoanalysis and Faith: The Letters of Sigmund Freud and Oskar Pfister, eds. Heinrich Meng and Ernst L. Freud, trans. by Eric Mosbacher. New York: Basic Books, 1963This short piece (at page 13) suggests page 61-62 of the above book.
http://www.oup.co.uk/pdf/0-19-285455-0.pdfCheers
Craig Ryder
And I think we've a demonstration of what the good gentleman who began the post is talking about, yes?
the unconscious alone.His synthesis of the disparate disciplines examining human behaviour into a systematic approach, his profound understanding and explication of how neurosis develop, his creation of a methadology to open the unconscious to examination(psychoanalysis)were only a few of his revolutionary accomplishments.Freud saw millions of people plunge headlong into fratricidal conflict during the first and second world wars and in the latter conflict glimpsed the horrors of the holocaust as his fianal days approached.Remember as a Jew in pre WWI Vienna he was never accorded the same professional rights or social recognition as his catholic physicians had.With the kind of insight he had the pain of that knowledge must have been overwhelming.It does not surprise me that in aprivate moment he referred to mankind as trash either as a defense or as a reflection of his disappointment.I can forgive him .
you can cheap out and just be one. My guess is that its a form of stress relief for those having to be PC at work, at home and in their social life. Few of these folks you describe would ever say what they say if they were standing in front of you, especially near a cliff.
But I have to admit that the thought is tempting. A good justification would be to improve the level of debate among those of us left who are just soooo mature [and are sensible enough to avoid standing near cliffs] :-)
This post is made possible by the generous support of people like you and our sponsors: