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Hi everyone,
I am planning to mod my sa-11 through Reference audio mods.Here are the mods below;
-Power Supply upgrades ($500 installed)
# Replace all wiring/connectors and blocks with point-to-point silver wire/cotton tubing for High Voltage input to supply.# Replace all critical diode bridges with RAM custom handmade exotic diode bridges featuring silver wire and ultra fast smd diodes.
# Replace main reservior capacitor in circuit with Multiple Jensen 4-pole Electrolytic and hardwire into circuit using Silver Wire. We are the only modification service using the Jensen 4-pole caps. These capacitor are exotic in the capacitor world due to their design. They are not cheap caps either! They are over $50 a peice! These capacitors are superior to any other cap on the market for power supply usuage as they block noise from the power supply through their built in LC circuit and are fast reacting.
# Replace all voltage rail decoupling capaciotors on Power Supply board and Main Circuit Board with the Rubycon ZA/ZL series capacitors. These capaciotors are extremely low in impedance and high in ripple current. They outperform even the best series blackgates and offer a faster, more resolute performance when used in our mods.
# Replace a critical voltage regulator to the Audiocom Invisus PPR2 discrete Ultra low noise regulation circuit for a huge improvement in noise reduction on the voltage rail which feeds the digital circuitry, which in turn bring much more resolution and detail to the music.
-Audio Consulting Coupling Transformer Stage/Part Replacements ($750 Installed)
# Delete entire Stock analog output stage (many many signal resistors, transistors etc.) DRAMATIC IMPROVEMENT!# Replace (and add) an abundant amount of Rubycon ZA series caps for critical voltage rail decoupling
# Add Audio Consulting Signal Coupling transformers to eliminate stock stage (these are passive, meaning the noise floor will drop very significantly and no fluxations with the AC mains)
# Replace stock RCA's with WBT NextGen Versions (eddy current free) for the best RCA connection possible# Use Audio Consulting silver wire and cotton tubing point to point for all wiring for the output stage wiring.
# Note: Since we use signal coupling transformers (passive) they do no induce the noises from power supplys and they isolate and block HF noise from entering back into the DAC chips from other components in the system. There are absolutely NO CAPACITORS or RESISTORS in the signal path in our mods!! The Analog output is wired for both Single Ended and True Balanced Output.
Total:$ 1,250
Follow Ups:
They conveniently forgot the most important mod: the CLOCK!
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Special Audiocom Superclock is installed into the SA-11S1, check the webpage. The thing is no one else is installin a clock into the SA11S1, which it is very critical, I have done many a/b's.
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Thanks everyone for your comment. My thoughts on the marantz sa-11 is very nice with sacd. But, i still feel the red book needs to be improve in my opinion. Not every red book cd plays well on the sa-11. Does anyone know if the RAM mods i have listed in the post improve both red book and sacd's? I was hoping someone had mod there sa-11 and post some feedback here. Please do share with us if you have one. thanks
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The SA11-S1 is a pretty good RBCD player. Marantz has taken a great degrre of care into designing this player and produced a beautiful circuit layout.RAM on the other hand seems to ignore internal layout and decides to mount some of their parts on a piece of wood as weel as using glue to mount power supply. Look no further than the Esound CD-E5.
There are other ways to imporve your player without having to resort to an expensive upgrade. Try a good power cord or a better interconnects depending on your taste.
I sold my Marantz SA-11S1 once I got the Zhaolu 2.0 DAC. It's even better with Oritek Discrete Output Stage Mod. I suggest you get a $170 Zhaolu D2.5A first, then decide whether to mod it as asking.http://www.head-fi.org/forums/showpost.php?p=2617602&postcount=8
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Hi 11sasam,You should get the AD-1852 DA chip. It's a whole different thing. The Esound CD-E5's analog output stage has no opamp, so it should have less noise than the stock Zhaolu.
What I meant is that SA-11S1 sounds too "thin" which make music less musical, compared to the Zhaolu's and certainly the Esound's. You may overhaul the whole analog output stage of your Zhaolu (AD-1852) with the Oritek Discrete Output Stage. This will make the Zhaolu become a top-notch-player. I had mine done recently.
Oritek Modded Zhaolu's will simply make you "floored". It has been tested against $$$$ CD players like Accuphase, dCS, Esoteric, Revox, and Meitner. They are in the same league !!
The superb thing of these players is that the *noise* level is extremely low. You only need a good design (not $$$$), like class-A zero-feedback circuit, and quality components to achieve "no" noise in the signal path. The Oritek Discrete Output Stage can give you this ! Some people do Zapfilter mod on the Zhaolu for this purpose too.
I had critical listening on XR and SA/CD versions of some titles I have, e.g. Vienna, Carmen, etc. The XR version incredibly improves details of music in the original tapes, recorded 50-years ago. However, if you listen music for entertainment or relaxation, the CD version can convey this sense to you.
That's right, 11sasam. Get decent digital, interconnect cables and power cord for the modded Zhaolu before you make a conclusion about it. A low-cost dvd player can be used as a transport. Today OEM transports are good enough though.
I'm more than happy now. My search for the source is almost over.
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FYI, I do have the Zhaolu D2.5 with CS4798 DAC and BB2604 ICs. The sound is edgy and glassy flat and forward lacking depth. It does improve over the stock AC with AudioQuest NRG2 cord. I will only mod a unit that is worththe money. Here is a link to Elysia's DIY Diary blog.http://www.hififever.com/forum/weblog_entry.php?e=198.
I own a Marantz SA8400 SACD and an Esound CD-E5 Signature CDP. The Marantz is very usical with a beautiful mid-range. The Esound has an accurate and engaging sound.
Thank you for your input.
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I agree that Zhaolu in its stock form is below average, but it has potential. It's definitely not a "pile of junk"! (Peek inside...)
You will get a very decent sound (I'd rate it above average) with a simple documented mod which bypasses the coupling caps. It's a 10 minute job for the skilled person, one hour for a newbie.
I bet you'll have a whole different view of the sound of the Zhaolu after you listen to the modded version.
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My feelings exactly, a piece of cheap junk.
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I find it odd you knock on the appearance of RAM's mods (oak-mounted parts-oh the horror), but don't speak to the sound at all. I'm glad interconnects were succesful for helping your "dull" (your words) sounding E-sound player, but no interconnect is going to yield the performance gains the original poster listed.
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No reason to make personal atacks. Everyone has an opition to make. I assume ou will spend mega dollars on RAM mods.
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I am sorry that you felt personally attacked, but what exactly are you basing your comments about RAM on?
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I thank you for your sentiment. I am in full agreement with those who moded their equipments as I had the chance to listen to their work. I feel RAM should pay attention to the appearance of their work as well. I had a look at an Esound internal work from RAM and although sound reproduction was super it was deplorale to see such poor workmanship. One other factor is high cost, but there is a price to pay for everything.Please undersa=tand that when I decide to buy a CDP, several factors must sutisfy my requirements such as aesthetics, internal layout, build quality and most importantly sound quality.
Fair enough. To me, the sound easily outweighs the look of a mod. Please try to keep in mind that they are working with a predetermined layout and are trying to keep a purist approach with their execution. This may mean gluing a power supply resevoir cap and some output transformers down. BTW, there's a good reason why they use wood with their diode bridge and other small circuits.They are mad scientists after all (meant as compliment). Peace.
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Here is a internal pic of the RAM Esound CD-E5 for information purposes.
I love my RAM-modified Denon 2900. It has pretty much everything you listed + battery-powered Superclock 3. Not a subtle difference in performance from stock.
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Hi,I have heard all these guys with their mods and although they may make some improvements, at the end of the day your player isn't worth any more on the resale market. Save your money and listen to it the way it is. The most notceable improvement I ever heard between players is going to a belt drive transport with a good NOS DAC. Mods do very little. Today all parts quality is good so going from a Panasonic cap to a Rubycon to an Elna or what have you makes very little audible difference.
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i guess that there are different strokes for different folks. there was a time that i was interested in buying and selling equipment, maintain its value was paramount. but acheiving the best sound reproduction possible has become more important.i have had all of my equipment extensively moddified ... why? because all equipment is built to a pricie point. to make a player that costs 200 - 300 bucks means that something has to give. yes a cap is a cap a value is a value but is it really? i have heard the differences between the superclock 3 and the superclock 4. in my system the difference was not subtle. i have heard the difference that a radical mod on my aleph 3 made. HUGHE!!!! i have learned that i must be willing to risk something to gain something. in audio i am willing to take those risks. i know that i can always return to the previous state.
Cain & Cain single Horn Ben
-replaced stocked caps with jupiter ..... more body and clairity very smooth more resolutionAlpha Core MI1
-cryo'd .... smoother, dynamic, resolutionNelson Pass Aleph 3
-custom diode bridge on oak, cablepods, bolt through transformer removed, transformer on pine, silver wire ... way more resolution, air, dynamics,Bent audio TVC
-cryo'd .... very smooth, liquid, grain freeAck Dac
-new batteries, silver wire, regulator, WBT's, wood chassis .... you would not recognize the sound. STUNNING!!!! still much more to do.47 labs flatfish
-optima red top battereis, pio caps, silver wire, super clock 4, regulato, all on wood, etc. still more to comeall ic's cyo'd
more to do.
Mods are easier to rationalize when one considers that MRSP of commecial gear includes a mark-up of 4 to 8 times cost-of-goods. So even premium products $10K and up are compromised in the parts bin. This can be rectified at relatively lower cost by the modifier, who is unburdened by marketing expenses, retail dealer markup, etc. But perhaps the greatest percentage return on investment with modding is with promising but built-to-cost pieces like the Oppo or Behringer. These can be bought cheaply and modded up to a very high standard. Probably nothing like the modded Marantz, but at around $1K total investment they are likely better than far more expensive stock solutions.
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I've had all of these RAM-sourced pieces in my SCD-1 at one time or another, and they all improved on the stock fitment. I'm surprised the Audiocom Superclock is not included. It sounds like RAM has selected these upgrades to key power circuits from among a wider range of possible modifications.
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Do you really think putting $1250 into a $200 or $300 player is worth the value. At the end of the day it is still what it was worth before the mods. People don't give you back you you invest. Mods are subjective. I am not really sure the newer parts quality is any better than the old. Power supply! Now that's what should really be addressed. Not just cap value increas either. Starting at the very beginning of the chain. THE POWER TRANSFORMER! That makes a difference but again, room, money!
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Given the high cost of parts & labor, it makes sense to start with a proven mule like the SA-1, SA-11, SCD-1, Esoteric, or Denon. There is no fixed template for improving all CDPs. But in general it is good philosophy to substitute an aftermarket clock and to refine power circuits (e.g. custom diode bridge, discrete regulators, better reservoir & filtering caps). In most cases a drop-in analog stage like RAM transformers or VSEI offers a better cost/benefit ratio and higher absolute performance level than labor-intensive piece-part substitutions in the stock analog section.My observation directly comparing a few of these machines (stock & modded SCD-1 to stock SA-1 to high-end vinyl, is that such modded CDPs can rise to a level of performance far beyond mere subjectivity. Resale value, customer support, and warranty are separate issues. Personally I have no interest in selling my highly modded SCD-1. It has become the one fixed point in my system.
As to the stock Marantz, if the SA-11 is similar to the SA-1, I can report that it is a nice musical player, but well short of dynamics, body, dimensionality, resolution, and realism of my modded Sony and other machines that approach SOTA.
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And sounds fantastic as it is, although it could use a bit more body. This is a wonderful player + SACD. I wouldn't touch it.
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