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I've notice in this site that the Panasonic Digital amp RX45 is quite a machine.I was looking to buy the Sim Audio W-5/P-5 combo.
Would a Panasonic be better that Sim Audio combo? Anyone compare them both?
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I have an aging SimAudio Celeste amp connected to a Sony TAP9000ES preamp and had the same question, so off to the Best Buy I went and got an XR25. I had money signs flying around my head going home with this machine, thinking of all cash I could save with this one box. I played it for a week straight, unmodded of course (neither is my Sim) through the digital input and it did sound enjoyable, but when I switched back to my equipment, I was surprised at the large difference I found with instrument seperation, clarity, better frequency extremes, which meant the treble and midrange was cleaner and voices were clearer than the XR25. I brought back the Panny, even though I was aware that it didn't have the necessary break in time or the required mods, but I made my decision based on what I had heard. I suspect that the XR45 is a better machine than the XR25, but I would also think that the W-5/P-5 is a better combo than the CEL/TAP.
I wouldn't mind having a digital Panny, but I would use for what it was intented to do, to provide good quality home theater at an affordable price, but for music, I much preferred the Sim, and in the end, that's what it all came down to.
I looked at the question and said the same thing as another"are you kidding me".It had best not be for people that use Sim and some other gear as to the price tag! I have been thinking of Sim and Plinius Gear. Would be extremely
While the Panasonic's and some other low budget stuff is they do well when matched with certain gear,but to place it is a league like that it would seem impossible or very improbable.
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And dead on. I'm buying one for every member of my family, and one for the 2nd bathroom too.
You may want to consider a transformer based passive pre with the W5. ie Bent NOH or Sonic Euphoria PLC. This will depend on your source.The Panny's are not a shoe in by any stretch. have heard the X10/X25/X45 in 6 different systems and found them all lacking.
No way, not without mods. The X45 is pretty dissapointing stock, IMO. Even with extensive mods, the bass control will be better with the Simaudio, however the mids and highs may leave the Sim in the dust.
The pany 45 is terrible for analog sources.
I own a freshly modified Sim i-5 which is rated about the same as the Pannys rms.
I use the modded i-5 for 2 channel sa-cd, and sometimes redbook.
When your comparing a digital source, the Pany is more transparent than the stock i-5 was, but its also not as refined at the same time.If you want to use analog sources, the Pany 45 is way out of the running imo, as compared to anything in the Sim line up.
I am currently running two 45's in a 2 and 6.1 channel bi amped set up and it sounds much better than using one 45.
Add power conditioning,better pc's and digital cable and things are getting even better.The real refinment will probably only be there after mods, which I have planned next.
After these two 45's are modded,they may meet or beat the modded i-5, or even seperates for redbook....time will tell
in the latest Stereophile they show the insides of a Sim Audio CD player costing $2K. It appears to be a big rip off. Tiny little circuit board with tons empty space all encased with an impressive chassis. Where is the purchaser's money going towards? The chassis it seems....
Dies are shrinking, pin count is way up, BGA's are everywhere. Circuit board sized from yesterday (like only a couple years ago) can be accomodated in just a few small highly integrated parts. I've seen a 10 million gate Altera device with 1152 BGA pins suck in a board that used to take up two full size EISA boards with even more functionality. It's the excellence of the sound resulting from superior design that counts. Often times less parts equals better sound anyway.
while we are on the subject of semiconductor, I will chime in a little.Yes, gates are shrinking and metal 1 pitch continues to shrink below 200nm mark for 65nm node. But fact of life is except in digital processing, high end audio is about discrete parts and discrete parts take space, lots of it.
You can pack 7.1 into a small receivers like those in Good guys, but you can't even fit a volume control, a dedicate analog board, digital board, display board, separate power supply, dual mono, high storage caps, big transformer, etc (I think you get the point) into a small space.
So you judge a component's sound quality by the size of its circuit boards?I don't know whether the $2K Equinox is any good or not, but the $3K Nova impressed me a lot and it has a pretty basic layout too (see link below).
Dave
you typically see these empty spaces in mass market stuff, not a $2000 player. A lot of money went into the chassis and very little into the actual components that pass audio signals... 8=)
What does the size of the board have to do with the quality of the components on it or the quality of the circuit design?Seriously, if audio components were priced according to how much "stuff" was packed inside the case, mass market A/V receivers would be the big ticket items and you'd be able to buy tube amps at Wal-Mart.
Most of the high-end stuff I have modded has lots of empty space inside. It's the Sony's and Panasonics that are packed full.
That is like asking if a Ford Escort outperforms a Porsche.
Are you serious with this question?I did buy this famous Panasonic to compare it to my rig ( Sim W-5 with my tube preamp). It was not even close.
I would have like to prefer the Panasonic due to his low price tag, but no luck.
I tried to listen to the various qualities peoples on this web site encountered with this Panasonic, but i could not ear anything special with this machine.
If you have the money for the Sim, go for it.
I did return my Panasonic.
Just butting in my 2 cents here...I owned a SIM Moon I5 integrated for a period of time (6 months or so). It was a very smooth , nice sounding amp, and I enjoyed the sound of it. Now, I also own the Panasonic Sa-XR10 and SA-xr50 digital receivers. The digital receivers require some TLC...a good power conditioner, a good digital link (glass optical), a good power cable, and a bit of break-in. GIVEN all that, I prefer the Panasonic receivers. They definitely need good power conditioning! A good fiber optic cable is essential. Then you will hear what a digital amp is capable of. Astounding transparency, great dynamics, very musical sound! Treat yours well and it will pay back greatly. I can't wait to hear the SA-XR70 that I have on pre-order. Happy Listening!!
well i havent heard it, but i cant understand that if it is that good, why didnt panasonic update the power supply ie; conditioning, install a better powercord on it and sell it for 5 times the msrp ??it appears that the people would still buy it in droves ? now thats alot of profit they lost out on...
< < it appears that the people would still buy it in droves ? now thats alot of profit they lost out on... > >I don't think so!, your suggestions will dramatically increase the unit cost of the product and they will sell significantly fewer units at USD1000. Also, brand image comes into play as folks bulk at spending a large sum on a mass market brand. Some Japanese companies have been down this road before and panasonic current market approach is safer and spot on. After modding you loose your warranty anyway, hence minimal risk for the company. Therefore, the company is better off targeting a wider market and leaving the more adventurous to tinker at their own risk.
Panasonic uses the class T amps because they are much more efficient than typical class A/B amps. That means MUCH less heat and smaller power supplies. The sonic attributes are incidental to the Panasonic design. However, other companies are using Tripath Class T amps and aiming for the high end audience, i.e. Audio Research, Spectron, and others...I own good seperates (over $5000) and the Panasonic amp beats them in most regards. Keep in mind it's the Tripath Class T patented technology that makes this even possible. Listen for yourself and decide.
well first of all i dont care about saving a few dollars electricity when it comes to audio so efficiencies are meaningless. And unfortunately i dont think i could ever hear it because the kinds of stores that sell this type of product dont do proper demos, either at home or in the store, because with the junk speakers they sell and the junk sources, cabling etc. there isnt any point to try to listen to it- although i am curious as hell to see what it actually does sound like...
The Panasonic is not based on Tripath class T patented technology.
The Tripath technology does not currently implement a direct digital input of PCM or DSD data. It requires a conventional DAC to convert the PCM to analog.The Panasonic is based on the Texas Instruments Equibit technology which is the same technology used in the TACT and Kenwood amplifiers.
This implementation accepts PCM datastream and converts it to PWM.
Although the Kenwood uses the T/I solution, it does not do 192hz upsampled digital signals and allows for dsps to be used for digital sources ect.I consider the Panys to be the only true digital direct receivers whith all others being either hybrids, or in the case of the Kenwood, compromised.
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