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In Reply to: Sounds MUCH better? posted by J North on January 04, 2004 at 12:03:05:
On the contrary, I thought the responses were largely professional and most if not all merely asked questions and brought up relevant points as owners with considerable experience with the component in question. I think this board has worked well, nobody did anything but bring up valid points as owners.I certainly didn't disagree with your findings, and simply related my direct experience as an actual owner which I'd posted on the relevant dates/times in the past. With regard to breakin, you in fact made light of it "I'll have another listen to the XR45 sometime when the snow thaws I guess" - hey, that's OK, it was kind of funny - but I do own it and have listened to it for hours per day for 8 weeks running now.
The post you're directly responding to merely asked questions, made suggestions, and clearly admitted that tweaking the panasonic all to hell raises it's price point considerably, and raised a number of synergy issues as did others. Never once did he doubt your conclusions either that I can see - the closest he came to that was saying "remember....you are comparing a $300 thing versus a $1600 amp"
The "Dubious Measurements" point brought up by 2 others was valid - it was directly related to the panasonic as reported by another board, and you brought it up.
gmood simply said "Lacking air and ambience? I got to scratch my head on that one. Must be system synergy" - valid, if he hears it in his system to a higher degree than his Music Reference RM9 MKII and it's not evident in your shootout, he merely questioned if it was really in the source or not, without doubting your findings. Fair enough right?
I think it's legitimate that owners would question shorter term shootouts if they get different results based on longer term use. You're right though, some people defend their brands and purchases to the end - I've never understood that - but why anyone would be brand-defending panasonic is beyond me, it's hard not to be embarrased actually.
And surely you know it does take a while to get your room/system combo right, hell when I added the PS Audio Statement power cord, so much more bass was there that it would have required a speaker movement normally - if I had that option. I specifically waited 7 weeks to do that so I'd be SURE I could tell what difference it made - an opportunity not afforded by a shootout. I guess you don't believe that based on your comment "But only after a 6-week burn in and upgraded power cord" - ok, but I was there.
I don't doubt the HCA-2 performed better in your system and don't believe you'd have any reason to lie, nor did ANYONE claim anything like that - you gave the panasonic it's due and I think we all thank you for the comparison, and are really not surprised by it. I personally hope PS Audio does put out an all digital integrated with the HCA-2 as the amp, I'll be first in line to audition it, and let me be the first to officially thank you for taking the time to post and answer regarding your testing!
So like, hey, thanks again, and where can I get some of that pixie dust?
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Follow Ups:
6weeks for burn in?Did the component change or your ears?They just put in a new power plant near us so i have to wait 6months for the generators to break in.With all due respect aren't we getting a little phychodic?I did find some pixie dust though:^}.Regards Bob
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You quoted that a vacuum tube PREAMP takes 200 hours to break in, at 10 hours per day that's 20 days. That's 3 weeks. Mine definitely wasn't even on 10 hours per day for music, but I did leave it on a blank tuner station at low volume as often as possible. Your quote:> Tweakers' Asylum, Re: new to tubes, need help (0.00)
> Posted by 3fd on 2002-03-17, 05:34:25 (67.24.90.33)
> Hello,Try breaking in the unit for at least the 100 hours.
> I personally think 150 to 200 hours gives you a better break inSo 3 weeks is OK for a preamp, but 6 weeks is outrageous for a power amp (well, and pre, and DAC in the panasonic). Where does the line cross from reasonable in your estimation to outrageous? 4 weeks? 5 weeks?
Regarding your point "Did the component change or your ears?" - hey man, that's a good point with respect to short term shootouts vs owning a component and listening daily for hours per day - every component has a personality (sadly), and it takes a while to acclimatize - hell, it takes quite a while just to get through one's reference recordings, the less obvious character a component has the longer it takes to pin it down. The truer to the source, the less character a component has.
I'd take you up on the pixie dust, but shipping powerder across the border to canada is probably not wise these days.
Lets see,24 hours a day=8.3+ days not 20 if you want to get technical.After 30 years of this at times silly game i have found ss if made properly never took that long to get to it's best,my opinion only.As you well know we have our own opinions and quite frankly i've been back and forth between ss and tubes and found tubes to behave differently than ss for breakin.I am happy for you that you have found what pleases you at a very low cost.You like what you like and i like what i like and i doubt either one of us is the end all to what the perfect sound is,atleast i know i'm not.I would like to know where the hell Canada comes into play as i'm not from there not that is a bad thing.Regards Bob
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