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In Reply to: RE: Sound coming from the front with HPs. posted by PAR on March 31, 2016 at 10:10:37
Thanks a lot again for the very complete explanation.
Really an excellent design.
So it is confirmed that some sort of processing is needed.
I supposed so because in the best case i have sound outside the head (that is already nice) but absolutely never from the front.
Even with binaural recordings the soundstage has a hole in the front.
For me absolutely the biggest drawback (it is not natural).
I will read about the SPL Phonitor 2 .. really beautiful.
Thanks again.
Kind regards,
bg
Follow Ups:
Just to clarify that the Phonitor circuit does not produce images outside the head. However the strict left/right presentation (with that hole you mention) of normal headphone listening is changed to one that places the sounds in a similar relative configuration to that heard from your speakers.Once one has become acclimatised to the sound of using the crossfeed circuit (which as I said is subtle, especially on first hearing) it is great fun to listen whilst using the angle control to move the image inside your head so that it maps the one that you hear when you remove the headphones and switch on the speakers.
I have found a positive answer to you search for a cheaper amp with crossfeed. A Phonitor Mini! Based on the Phonitor 2 it is less than half the price (around 490 gbp here).
http://spl.info/en/products/headphone-amplifier/phonitor-mini/overview.html
Sorry that I couldn't paste an active link. The file path seems too long for the URL link field in the AA dialogue box.
Edits: 03/31/16
Hi and thanks a lot again for the very valuable advice.
I will look after the Mini for sure.
You say " Just to clarify that the Phonitor circuit does not produce images outside the head ".
I have been so stupid not to save the link because i listened to that video 4 o 5 times and while the sound image was not solid like the one i can get with speakers, obviously, the sensation of sound (even of low quality) coming from the front was amazing.
Was quite clearly coming from the tv screen !
If only i knew how that could have happened.
I will try in the weekend another experiment with mono tracks made from good quality stereo tracks.
I understand that with mono the soundstage depth should be mantained.
I have to try.
However i am pretty sure that a kind of signal processing is needed.
It would be nice to get a unit to be placed in front of a stereo HP amp to get the effect and let the user free to use his own amp.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 03/31/16
"sensation of sound (even of low quality) coming from the front was amazing.
Was quite clearly coming from the tv screen !
If only i knew how that could have happened."
It will be an extreme version of what I have already described. There are devices available on the pro market that will produce strange spacial effects from normal multi-channel or stereo sources. These are intended as "effects" for TV dramas, movies and so on. A typical use would be, say, in a TV drama with a scene set in a restaurant. The background sound is made to occupy positions way beyond that achievable through the TV speakers. I often watch and hear TV programmes that have been so treated and hear e.g the clicking of cups on saucers or birdsong (jungle scene) seeming to come from my lounge walls three metres away from the TV location (I have no surround sound facilities). What you heard was probably of this nature although most likely created through an accidental combination of factors when the soundtrack was recorded.
Sound reproduction that genuinely appears outside of the head via 'phones has been achieved but requires 1. a lot of processing 2. custom built earpieces as accounting for the shape of the individuals' pinnae and ear canal entrance is a paramount factor for success.
With decent headphone reproduction a mono source should be centre head with no width. However the sound can appear to stretch in a line from front to back. This does depend, amongst other factors, on the quality of the signal source ( both recording and the reprodcution electronics). Some equipment simply will not "do" front to back imaging with mono in my experience. I actually use the abilty of equipment to acheive this as part of my selection criteria and when setting up a system.
Hi ! thanks again for the helful advice.
I am aware of the special effects added in post production
Actually i am amazed at their quality ... they can be amazingly realistic that is even scaring.
I have a short story.
I was watching a tv series and then at certain point there was a fire alarm ringing.
I jump off the sofa and run to the door ... i am not joking.
The sound was more than realistic.However what i have experienced is something different.
The voice of the speaker was badly recorded but strangely his position could be quite clearly located in front of me.
I have no idea of what kind of processing they have actually used.
I understand from your very through explanation that this effect could not have been possible without some sort of processing of the signal.
I mean ... it is not the result of a particular mic or mic placement. The L and R signals must have been "treated" in some way.Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/01/16
Actually I wasn't thinking of deliberate processing in this case bearing inmind the nature of the material. I think that it was probably accidental. For example the sound recordist captured some oddly phased data etc. from reflections or other sources at the location which when added to the speech that he meant to capture resulted in the out of head experience that you got. I would bet that if so it will not be possible to replicate the experience using a different pair of headphones. It was a unique interaction.
BTW, did you delete a posting before writing this one? The reason that I ask is I got a notified AA Headphone Heights posting from you re: Ossic X in my email which is not now in the thread. Just a bit confused by this, that's all.
Hi and thanks again.
Sorry yes .. looking for information i found a link to the Ossic X system but i deemed it OT here.
Interesting system by the way.But i am more interested in the processing of a simple stereo signal.
Even if from what i understand some HPs are better than others at giving an out of head sound, an actual processing of the signal is needed for a very spatial experience.
Yes .. i think that a combination of HP and processing is needed.
I read something about HPs with a good out of the head sound and i got that the position of the drivers is key. Frontal and inclined.I do not want to sound trivial but this need of spatial sound is very much felt by video gamers.
Clearly i will lose something in fidelity.
Thanks a lot again.
Kind regards,
bg
Edits: 04/01/16
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